Hat On Imam's table- Have another look
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- 3thoubucks
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Hat On Imam's table- Have another look
I have always been amazed by the gracefull vertical line of the front of this hat. I can't reproduce it on my hats. I can come close if I carefully adjust the size and depth of the pinches, and top bash, but I can't get THIS. Here's my (dents formed on the block)Tonak doing it completely automaticly. It does this for a couple reasons- It's not front pinched and the crown to top transition in front isn't a curve, it's a corner stamped into the felt. Something else you might have noticed- similar sized front pinches. Acording to Dakota Ellison, this is only the second shot of the hat, the dock scene being the first. My Tonak has huge taper and a short crown, so I have ordered a Miller 256 I have a Miller 257 Which has a great block, a virtual copy of my PBBM's block, perhaps a hair more front and back taper. So there's no reason the 256 shouldn't make great Raiders hat when turned and re-pinched- But I think it will be more like the real Raiders hat. That's because of the side to top abrupt transition in front, and if it's like my Tonak, when the top bash is popped up, it won't look like the open crown 257, there will be more dome. Also, this top bash is more of a structural element, and I'm hoping to see some awesome back-tilt. ..The implication is, the Raiders hat was originally a dents formed on the block hat and we're looking at it stock here, just with the top bash pushed down in back, same as the Tonak. ..I've orderd my Miller a size or two big, to accomodate a folded sweat, and a pleat in the right front dent under the ribbon. Will post pics.
Last edited by 3thoubucks on Tue Dec 21, 2004 4:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Here is one of mine. http://public.fotki.com/Fedora/hats/pdrm0009.html Fedora
And anotherhttp://public.fotki.com/Fedora/hats/pdrm0012.html
And anotherhttp://public.fotki.com/Fedora/hats/pdrm0012.html
Last edited by Fedora on Mon Dec 20, 2004 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- 3thoubucks
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Yeah Fedora, I can get close too, but it takes a lot of fussing. Your front is too straight a line, then breaks an inch and a half from the peak. My Tonak is always there- one gracefull curve without ever touching it. Plus the bash has very hard edges, like the one on the table. Maybe I'm wrong. I just gave Miller Hats $124 to try and find out. .......................If anyone thinks that is just a prop hat on the table, look at this. Maybe the front bash gets popped out, but the top portion of the little bash is left because it's PERMANENT?
Last edited by 3thoubucks on Tue Dec 21, 2004 2:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
You know 3M$, the characteristics of the felt plays a very important role. For instance, I can block a stiffer felt on my block, and the results are different. Then, if I block something like an Optimo, with its nonstiffened thin felt, the block shape is exagerrated. You practically have to modify your block(or have another one) depending upon the felt body. For instance, on my block a stiffer felt will give you a back that is straight up after creased. The same block will give almost too much reverse taper on the back with the same block. regards, Fedora
- 3thoubucks
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Fedora, the block I have been making is identical to yours. !00% stovepipe, a curved top when viewed from the side, but not much curvature on top when viewed from the front. An even sharper transition on mine. I have reblocked my Miller 257, a thick, slightly stiff felt, and one of those super floppy greenish-tan Tonaks on it. I went from a size small on the Tonak to a 7 3/4, so the felt is thin and floppy now. I bought the chocolate brown Tonak just to reblock next, but things started to click. All the open crown Indy hats I've seen have top profiles that don't look much different viewed from the front or the side side. This very curved profile when viewed from the side with the bash popped up is probably an integral part of every hat with a Tonak or 256 style top bash formed on the block. So these pre bash blocked hats are actually closer to your block than any others. A hat off your block and one off the Raiders prebashed block, if there was one, might be identical once the bashes are popped out- except for a few corners and ridges stamped in.
- 3thoubucks
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As the house boy with the tray enters this scene, the camera trucks right on wheels following him. The hat enters the frame and the perspective on it changes as it moves to the center of the frame. The hat when it first enters the frame (the hats on the right) have a perfectly straight front line, which evolves into a curved line as the camera continues to move (hats on the left). I think anyone might have a difficult time reproducing this PERFECTLY STRAIGHT LINE, TOP TO BOTTOM, at this angle, unless they had a Tonak, Miller 256, ect. ...Look at the crown's shadow on the brim of the Tonak on your right- the light source is to your left, and the unpinched front of the crown is visible. Now look at the Raiders hat on your right. The light source is directly behind the hat, (the shadow on the brim is pointing straight at you) so you can't see the unpinched front- but it's there, I'm thinkin'.
- 3thoubucks
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A couple stocking stuffers to ponder. -The small bash again Machine gun guy. Bashes formed on the block. This guy looks like he once tried to pinch from the right corner down- That would be the Raiders turn. He gave it a little high center pinch here This from the opening scene. Maybe a branch knocked it back into it's original block formed top bash? Here's my block formed top bash Tonak. The hat has huge side taper so it's narrower. This doesn't prove anything, but here's one of only two actual fedoras from 1936 seen in the film- on the back cover of the Life magazine.
- 3thoubucks
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My Miller came, (and it's has too much taper front and sides to make a good Indy hat.) But, it gave me another clue indicating that the Raiders hat was indeed a bashes-formed-on-the-block fedora. Here is the Miller with a small bit of tape on it. Now here is the hat turned. The tape has moved lower on the crown, although the top of the front pinch is still at the same sharp transition point molded into the hat. . From Raiders- Look at the ROUND SHAPE of both of the LUMPS at the top of the bashes. I KNOW the one on the Miller is due 100% to being a PERMANENT MOLDED-IN FEATURE. The front bashes on the other side of both the Miller and the Raiders hat are pretty plain. .......I'd say the original Raiders hat had a wider space between the bashes in front, like the grey Nazi fedora above, and smaller bashes, like the little one on the Imam's table. One more thing- the high narrow bash wasn't put there by me, it's just the one that comes with the hat, that has mover rearward because of the turn, and is a little higher and narrower because the back of the top bash is lowerd.