Lost-Ark: Two Holster offerings

indiana_dudley · Post by **indiana_dudley** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:00 pm

Guys,

Well we have been working hard over the last few months, and moving house, but finally
have two versions of a Raiders style holster to show you guys. We are looking, as ever, for
feedback, and have taken the decision to offer the holsters seen in the photos out before
we continue to produce any more. This is really a two-fold decision:

1. In order to ensure we have an accurate replica of the Raiders holster, I hope we are pretty close.

2. The UK market is a little different as someone owning a firearm (even de-activated) is
pretty slim. So the holster may be used to hold available CO2 pistols which are popular
over here, or perhaps just even as display...?

There is also the possibility of a third option, with machine stitched body and hand-stitched
barrel plug for a price somewhere in between.... I will post some pictures of our prototype
of this over the weekend.

Full photos at: http://www.lost-ark.net/holster.html

Please let us know what you think...

ID

<img src="http://www.lost-ark.net/images/deluxe-holster.jpg">

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:48 pm

indiana_dudley wrote:The UK market is a little different as someone owning a firearm (even de-activated) is
pretty slim. So the holster may be used to hold available CO2 pistols which are popular
over here, or perhaps just even as display...?

Great work, ID!

There are/will be some excellent resin replicas available soon which will make us Euro-heads happy... I'm thinking of Todd's and bowjunkie's fantastic guns...

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 1:52 pm

Hi. Nice work. Since you're asking opinions, I'd have to first ask how thick the leather is? The Raiders holster was thin. Just look at when he's on the front of the truck, you can see the flap blowing. Also when he hands Belloq his gun you can see how loose the flap is. The best holster to date as far as the thickness of the leather is MBA. The Keppler is way too thick and is also the wrong color. The color of yours looks a lottle light to me but we all know how there are so many variables to that and it's much better to see it in person.
I'd have to say the one thing that stands out as being a little off upon first glance is that the strap is too long and there are supposed to be 2 indented lines running along the sides of the strap as there are on the flap.
I see you making some money off of these. After all, how many holsters are there out there? If your delivery times are faster than certain vendors, I see you doing well with these.

indiana_dudley · Post by **indiana_dudley** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:29 pm

agent5 wrote: I'd have to first ask how thick the leather is? The Raiders holster was thin. Just look at when he's on the front of the truck, you can see the flap blowing.

The Deluxe holster is made from 3mm thick leather, and the Budget from 2.5mm. Although
it can 'fluff' out to look thicker.

The holsters are not stiff like certain IMA holsters I have handled, they are flexible and
supple. With use I am pretty sure movement on the flap would be similar especially after
a certain ammount of usage. We can of course alter the weight of leather if this is a real
issue.

Note: US leather is usually measured in ounces, UK in metric thickness. Working on a
conversion if anyone can help...

agent5 wrote: I'd have to say the one thing that stands out as being a little off upon first glance is that the strap is too long and there are supposed to be 2 indented lines running along the sides of the strap as there are on the flap.

I personally have never seen a second crease on the closure strap, either on film or on any
other replica holster. Can anyone confirm this, I somehow doubt that a double edge-crease
would fit, or certainly look 'tidy' ?

Note on colour and length of strap taken. I of course presume you mean the 'light' holster is
the Deluxe model as opposed to the Budget version? Any thoughts on how these
compare on the photos?

ID

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:24 pm

Double crease? Sounds dodgy... here's the strap on my Keppler:

I believe the MBA holster doesn't have a crease at all - haven't seen one in real life, but it sure looks like that on the main site.

Post by **Ken** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 9:13 pm

I think it makes sense that any offering would be functional and capable of carrying a gun - real or otherwise. thats my opinion anyhow.

By the way, what gun is that in the picture? I presume you got it in the uk?

Ken

indiana_dudley · Post by **indiana_dudley** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:35 am

Indiana Ken wrote:I think it makes sense that any offering would be functional and capable of carrying a gun - real or otherwise. thats my opinion anyhow.

By the way, what gun is that in the picture? I presume you got it in the uk?

Ken

I am also of this opinion, so we made the holster with the intention of holding the
Umarex Smith & Wesson 586/686 CO2 pistol with a 4" barrel, which is possibly
the most popular (and accurate) CO2 pistol available in the UK at the moment.

The pistol in the photo is however the Daisy Powerline 44 which is no longer in
production, but still available at a few UK outlets, inc J S Ramsbottom. This is the
pistol that Ob1tal discovered a few months ago, and most closely resembles our
good friend the HE2. The issue with this is however, apart from the fact it's getting
harder to find, is that it is only available with a 6" barrel, and accessories are no longer
available to convert to 4"...

However, I also very much like SJ's suggestion on the resin replica HE2's. I, of course
would like to make sure we don't have any import issues first of all here...

ID

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:54 am

OK. I just took a look at the budget holster and the color is much better in my eyes. Cool.

I personally have never seen a second crease on the closure strap, either on film or on any
other replica holster. Can anyone confirm this, I somehow doubt that a double edge-crease
would fit, or certainly look 'tidy' ?

If you can get ahold of the TSR Raiders adventure pack that came with the very first Raiders role playing game, there is a pic on the last page of Indy in Cairo gear and you can see the dual indentations on the flap very easily. Got Maul and I looked over this stuff last time he was over and he also agreed on this after seeing this pic. If someone has this and can scan it, it would be of some help. I, unfortuntalely, cannot.

Got Maul · Post by **Got Maul** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:41 pm

nice holster ! really nice ! The color of the budget holster is BEAUTIFUL !

I agree with Jason on this...the leather we discovered, was a lot softer than the representations we see today. In the picture that Jason is referring to, you actually see the outline of the gun as the flap was forced down on top of it...not as soft as jacket leathe, r but probably twice the thickness of a goat jacket. In addition I think the surface of the leather is a grittier. Defintely, I don't think it was so smooth and shiny but then again, I DO notice your leather seems a lot softer and the lighting may be creating the shiny effect.

Also, I can't tell, but from research, I think the very top of the holster strap actually lines up with the very top edge of where the holster body ends. What I mean by holster body edge is if you simply took an exacto knife followed the end holster top and went around- cutting off the flap-, that imaginary line that would continue onto the back of the holster- The end of your holster strap (the part that is sewn on) starts below this line- but I think it actually lines up with it.

lastly, I was wondering if you had a shot of the holster open, I would moreso like to take a look at the flap shape. I think the end of the flap that faces the holster butt, could use a bit more flare out, but this is only attained in the cut of holster flap (which in my opinion is the exact shape of the russian holsters of WWII).

All together though, I think you are really onto something. I wanted to do a holster at one point, but my capabilities as an artist just wouldn't suffice my want of accuracy.

I hope your holster fills this void !

Got Maul · Post by **Got Maul** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:32 pm

sorry for the big pic, but at least for now its necessary to illustrate what I was gabbering about :

Basically pics 1-4 illustrate not only color but also how soft the leather is. Notice (when seen in the movie) how easily the leather moves aside and even in the pic 4, the strap is so soft it forms a shape not indicative of a stiffer thicker strap that stands. Also notice the texture of the holster, not as smooth as previous holsters would allude...but because of DVD , we could now decipher different textures.

Pic 6 illustrates the cuts of strap and holster flap. Notice in line A, the holster flap cut is pretty straight going up the side leaving the pattern flare out more towards the front of the holster. Also notice that in line B, the holster strap is pretty much in line with the red line (just a hair below it).

anyhow, that's my assertion, just wanted to back up what I was saying with pics.

indiana_dudley · Post by **indiana_dudley** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 7:17 am

Guys,

Thanks for all the feedback and interest. Below is photo of the holsters open, as you can
see the right-hand (budget) holster has a more supple leather that emulates the pictures
above more accurately. The deluxe holster is a thicker leather and will withstand much more
abuse in the long term.

As mentioned on the website, we are looking to move these exact holsters, to offset some
expense, before we can move on. So if anyone is interested please drop me a PM.

<img src="http://www.lost-ark.net/images/holster-open.jpg">

ID

IndianaGuybrush · Post by **IndianaGuybrush** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:54 pm

Wait, lemme get this straight, the right hand holster is the cheaper one (price wise)? The color looks to be better than the 'deluxe' one, not as red.

indiana_dudley · Post by **indiana_dudley** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:24 pm

IndianaGuybrush wrote:Wait, lemme get this straight, the right hand holster is the cheaper one (price wise)? The color looks to be better than the 'deluxe' one, not as red.

[Edit] See below for the authorative guide on colour and leather....

ID

Templar · Post by **Templar** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 7:45 pm

indiana_dudley wrote:
IndianaGuybrush wrote:Wait, lemme get this straight, the right hand holster is the cheaper one (price wise)? The color looks to be better than the 'deluxe' one, not as red.
Yep, indeed you are correct, although colour is always only a matter of dye on the right
type of leather....

ID

If I may jump in here, as the maker, concerned not to mislead anyone, the budget is made from a cheaper, predyed skin, in a colour nearly impossible to imitate on a finished leather, though many attempts have been made in leatherworking legend.
It was the last my merchant had, in that colour, though he has more in a similar, but slightly more yellow brown.
there is enough left in the colour shown for a couple more holsters.
just finishing one, with slightly bigger flap, for a local target shooter.
a colt with a 13 inch barrel, thus keeping it within the law here.

The feedback so far (more welcomed) has been very helpful, especially as regards colour, always difficult to specify in words, so thankyou.
I will set to mixing a pot of dye to see how close I can get to the colour of the budget model on a better leather into which I can stitch an endplug, and finish edges, to reliably supply holsters to specification, if anyone wants them.
should the leather should be a little thinner, or (as sample) cut from the softer parts of a 3mm skin?

lots of oil and dark polish will soften and darken the handstitched one as much as wanted, in time.
budgets would be made from whatever I can find in predyed, more or less like the one shown, machined, with no plug.

the thing I like best about making gear for you lot is the constant challenge for precision. it keeps a man interested in his craft, if only through sheer stubborn refusal to be beaten.
brand new and clean, but looking old, beaten, and with patina.
hmmm....
keep the feedback rolling, and we will get it right in the end.

Got Maul · Post by **Got Maul** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 1:08 pm

is there anyway to get a butt sewn into the cheaper leather ? Iwould like one of those. but just don't like the open butt look.

I have seen this leather as well and wanted to use it for my holster. In my opinion the predyed stuff (the dying they actually do at the tanneries) is the ONLY way to go with getting the correct color.

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 2:24 pm

Templar wrote:the budget is made from a cheaper, predyed skin, in a colour nearly impossible to imitate on a finished leather, though many attempts have been made in leatherworking legend.

I'd like to think my holster in the bottom pic is quite similar. That holster was light reddish-brown, much like the deluxe version. I redyed it very dark brown and rubbed it with acetone while bending the holster in it's 'natural stress points'. Thus, the lighter color underneath makes for very nice highlights and distressed look.

Got Maul wrote:is there anyway to get a butt sewn into the cheaper leather ?

I guess actually sewing the plug in place is a difficult task indeed. I did some reverse engineering on my Keppler and discovered that the plug is glued in. The seam around the bottom is purely decorative.

Templar · Post by **Templar** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 4:47 pm

the holster just finished, mentioned above (correction, had to add 13 " to existing pattern. the gun is some 22" long, overall!) was made of the pullup, darker skin, and had an endplug stitched in.
its tricky stitching through the side of the plug, and time consuming, but not as bad as making hawks hoods, where the very thin leather must butt edge on, at a single thickness, and be stitched together with no trace of the thread appearing on the inside, against the bird's eye.
so, yes, we can do a deluxe handstitched in the pullup if you want.
the finish wont be as fine in the softer leather, though.

dudley has another holster where I experimented with a brown dye over the red-brown.
not as succesfully (yet!) as your fine attempt, scandinavia.
acetone, eh?
hmmm... again.
thanks.

Marcus Petrius · Post by **Marcus Petrius** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 4:59 pm

Got Maul wrote:
lastly, I was wondering if you had a shot of the holster open, I would moreso like to take a look at the flap shape. I think the end of the flap that faces the holster butt, could use a bit more flare out, but this is only attained in the cut of holster flap (which in my opinion is the exact shape of the russian holsters of WWII).

Out of curiosity, what Russian WWII holster does this apply to?
It might more easy to obtain a Makarov holster in Europe these days than an American holster due to the obsession collectors have with the west front.

Mike

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 5:11 pm

Marcus Petrius wrote:Out of curiosity, what Russian WWII holster does this apply to?
It might more easy to obtain a Makarov holster in Europe these days than an American holster due to the obsession collectors have with the west front.

The Makarov holsters are quite similar, but being automatic pistol holsters, they do have a magazine holder on the side. The Russian/Soviet service revolver was the Nagant, a late 19th century construction similar to the Webley.

This place sells replicas of Nagant holsters. They are similar to the "Indy" holsters.

Templar wrote:dudley has another holster where I experimented with a brown dye over the red-brown.
not as succesfully (yet!) as your fine attempt, scandinavia.
acetone, eh?
hmmm... again.
thanks.

You're welcome, Templar! In my experience, the best way to get natural highlights is to apply acetone in desired spot and immediately roll up or squeeze the holster. The dye "escapes" from the pressure points, leaving a nice "distress mark". Rubbing the holster only made it look fake - can't really use the same technique as in jacket distressing...

Got Maul · Post by **Got Maul** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 11:11 pm

Scan. Jones - NICE ! The weathering on that is PHENOMINAL !

Templar - cosmetic is ALL I am looking for so that would be no problem at all. Lemme get back to you about getting one , I just want to hold out until after christmas expenses.

indiana_dudley · Post by **indiana_dudley** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 9:11 am

Guys,

As Templar mentioned over the weekend we have a prototype holster which attempts to
achieve a darker colour. Here is a quick photo to show comparison between the three
existing:

The middle holster is made from the higher quality 3mm leather, the same as the holster on
the right, just with some distressing and darkening.

<img src="http://www.lost-ark.net/images/prototype.jpg">

ID

Yossarian · Post by **Yossarian** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:31 pm

Indiana_dudley, do you have any future plans to create a screen accurate LC Webley .455 holster?

There are so many options out there, and yet I think that most of these are just market items that have no intention of matching the film colors and so on.

If you do, I will buy one in a heart beat. No questions asked.

indiana_dudley · Post by **indiana_dudley** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:09 am

Yossarian wrote:Indiana_dudley, do you have any future plans to create a screen accurate LC Webley .455 holster?

There are so many options out there, and yet I think that most of these are just market items that have no intention of matching the film colors and so on.

If you do, I will buy one in a heart beat. No questions asked.

Hi Yossarian,

I'm afraid we don't have any plans for a Webley holster for the very reasons you mention,
there are so many options already out there. We have a .445 pattern that we can use to put
together an authentic copy, but at the moment these would probably have to be one-off's.

However if you are interested PM either myself or 'Templar' to discuss.

Thanks for the interest guys,

ID

Lost-Ark: Two Holster offerings

Lost-Ark: Two Holster offerings

Re: Lost-Ark: Two Holster offerings