Flightsuits Dark-Brown Goat:

Captain D · Post by **Captain D** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:50 pm

Hello,

Just writing to see if.... those of you who have the Flightsuits Dark-Brown Goatskin jacket, feel that the leather is stiff or very soft right outta the box?

Thank you for any replies!
Captain D

Rixter · Post by **Rixter** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 10:30 pm

I have both a Dark Seal Goatskin and a Dark Seal Lambskin Expedition. The lamb is buttery soft and very light, but I would say that the goat is only ‘stiff’ in comparison; otherwise, it is the next best thing to the lamb, and much more durable and it drapes nearly as well “outta the box.” The lamb also has more of a shine to it then the more matt finish on the goat, ...the color is almost identical.

Also, good luck on getting an Expedition that’s not currently in stock before January of next year. I understand because of the current changes at G&B that they are not producing any new Expeditions, including other consumer flight jackets until then. After the first of the year, I further understand that they will be considering whether to once again return, at least in part, to their old policy of made-to-measure jackets and dedicating more attention to catering to the average consumer before they shifted their production to satisfying their ‘big’ airline contract. Whether anything comes of those future discussions is anyone’s guess.

Harry Steele · Post by **Harry Steele** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 10:36 pm

Rixter,

You mean FSuits isn't producing _any_ new consumer (I take it you mean individual customers rather than corp accounts) jackets -- even A-2s in standard sizes?

Cheers,
Harry

Lao Feng · Post by **Lao Feng** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:20 am

Hi--I have found the Expo Goat to be pretty supple right out of the box. The sleeves are very supple, so are the areas right under the and around the chest., and the entire back section. As would be expected, and this is normal, the areas where there are layers of leather, such as the collar (2 ply) and the large cargo pockets (2-ply pocket closures) will feel a bit stiffer. But they will all soften up quite well with regular wear and with none of the creative techniques that others have posted to expedite the process.

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 10:51 am

Unless they've returned to their old practices, the two layer cargo pocket was changed 2 years ago to a single thickness. Regards. Michaelson

Axel · Post by **Axel** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:18 pm

Michaelson, I think Lao Feng was referring to the double layer leather pocket flaps. There is also a fabric layer sandwiched between the leather on the collar and pocket flaps.

My FS goat has softened up well. I did accelerate the process, but it would have done fine with time. I've been wearing mine since late September. Great jacket.

Axel

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:33 pm

Me too. The entire pocket (flap included) was thinned one layer a couple of years ago. They used my old jacket as their prototype right after the 2nd QM summit. That jacket is now in the possession of Indy Dawg. Regards. Michaelson

Lao Feng · Post by **Lao Feng** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:34 pm

Sorry--Axel is correct...I meant the flaps over the pockets. Back to work...Cheers

Axel · Post by **Axel** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:57 pm

Michaelson, my Expo which I received from G&B in June of this year has double layer leather flaps and single layer leather cargo pockets.

Axel

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 1:16 pm

Well, that answers THAT question....the new management has gone back to the old pocket flaps.

Thanks for the update. Regards. Michaelson

Sergei · Post by **Sergei** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 2:23 pm

Hmm.... but the cargo pockets are single layer. That's the important mod from 2002. I believe the leather flaps were always a double layer, with the interface material in between. So nothing has changed since 2002.

Rixter · Post by **Rixter** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:46 pm

Harry Steele wrote:Rixter,

You mean FSuits isn't producing _any_ new consumer (I take it you mean individual customers rather than corp accounts) jackets -- even A-2s in standard sizes?

Cheers,
Harry

That’s right Harry.

They have a limited number of jackets ‘in stock’ right now and if they would have to make one, even if it’s a ‘normal’ size that they usually carry (even if it’s not a made-to-measure jacket) that’s NOT in stock, the waiting period will be eight to ten weeks on ANY Expedition or other leather flight jacket.

And, as I’ve been told, they will be reassessing their current policy after the first of the year since apparently they were ill prepared to handle, or, hadn’t anticipated the large in flux of orders they would be required to fill with their current contracts and still satisfy the requests of their old consumer base that many of us were apart of prior to those newly acquired contracts. As an unfortunate consequence, mass production of once carefully crafted jackets to the individual’s specifications could fall by the wayside as they scramble to keep up. Whether they can obtain a profitable balance between the two and regain the high quality standards, reputation, and outstanding consumer support they once enjoyed is still in question.

It’s a shame! I guess it’s hard for me to let go and accept the way things are now after they had been such a fine and thoroughly reputable source of jackets for me in the past; and I am surprised that there aren’t more people ‘in the know’ that haven't discussed what has been going on with them here at COW. For now, Wested seems to be the only game in town.

Geez, do I sound pessimistic or what??? Maybe I should never read what I write.

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 5:01 pm

Ok, Sergei. I'm wrong. Maybe they just did it to my prototype and no others, but if you can answer to what has been going out the door since 2002, then that's the way it is. Regards. Michaelson

Captain D · Post by **Captain D** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 10:39 pm

Thank you for all of your replies!

But, dang, I wonder what all of this "negativity" was caused from....? Well, I hate to cause a bashing with Flightsuits, so I won't ask, lol....

But, it is good to hear that the Flightsuits Goatskin is nice and soft right outta the box! They sent me a jacket to try on, and even though I sent it back for exchange for a different size, I was amazed just how their Goatskin felt like the Lambskin....I couldn't tell if it was Goat or Lamb!

So, just thought that I would ask if this "softness" of the Goat was normal

...

Highest Regards,
Captain D

Sergei · Post by **Sergei** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:30 am

Captain D wrote:Thank you for all of your replies!

But, dang, I wonder what all of this "negativity" was caused from....? Well, I hate to cause a bashing with Flightsuits, so I won't ask, lol....

Highest Regards,
Captain D

I am shaking my head as well. Let's let it drop...

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:05 am

That's what this forum is for, or at least that's what I THOUGHT this was for....to discuss the pros AND cons of our personal experiences with vendors and gear. Each has posted their experience and 'reality' with this vendor of late. Some have had negative experiences, some (myself) have had confused experiences, and some believe they're the best thing since sliced bread. So be it. Nobody's wrong here, as each has had their own personal conversations with them, and here are the results. It's not bashing, unless somebodys hat gets dented. Appears this is what has happened in this case. Let's not go there. Just take what has been posted as the opinion of the writer at the time of THEIR contact, and come to your own conclusions. That's why we come here...to get ALL the facts as each have come across them, then make your OWN decision as how to proceed with your purchase. THAT'S why we come here. Regards. Michaelson

Indydawg · Post by **Indydawg** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 9:34 am

But, I just thought I'd clarify for the group.

After very careful analysis of Michaelson's old goatskin Expedition (which was the prototype/guinue pig for making the cargo pockets one layer of leather instead of two), I can state, without a doubt, that the cargo POCKET was changed to one layer of leather (one-ply, if you will), and there were NO changes made to the pocket FLAP (it remained two layer, or two-ply), as per Sergei's assertion.

Not that I have ANY idea what's going on with FS now, as I haven't ordered anything from them in a year since I got that distressed cowhide off the clearance page this time last year-which is now in the hands of another forum member here, who will remain nameless at this time.

So-like I said, I just wanted to clarify for anyone this particular issue. I can only hope that FS, if they have not already, soon will get all the "bumps" smoothed out from that very sudden and rocky transition they experienced, so that things can get back to normal and a consistent customer experience record can be reestablished.

No harm or foul intended here.
Later y'all!
Indydawg

Flightsuits Dark-Brown Goat:

Flightsuits Dark-Brown Goat:

Not to dredge up anything unpleasant here-