Does art imitate life...

ob1al · Post by **ob1al** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 12:57 pm

...or does life imitate art?

We know that the jacket in Last Crusade is the most aged and distressed of all the Indy jackets.

During the 1980's, the wearing of Indyesque A2 style jackets (and a million cheaper 'knock-offs') became a real high street fashion - they were everywhere, on pop stars, actors and Joe Public- and all artificially aged.

This leads me to wonder, if Raiders and then TofD spurred this 'high street' fashion trend in the first place, did the resultant 'heavily distressed' look influence the LC costumers when it came to aging Indy's jacket for that particular movie?

Is the LC jacket (or at least the amount of distressing) a pastiche of itself??

Thoughts?

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 1:57 pm

Thoughts? My Wested definitely does NOT look good with parachute pants.

bink

Lemon · Post by **Lemon** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 1:57 pm

Hmm, very existential!

I personally think that the costumers figured that Indy would have had quite a few "adventures" between TOD and LC that would have put some "miles' on the jacket, hence LC being the most aged looking.

Of course, using that logic, his Wested will be rags by Indy IV!

Gater · Post by **Gater** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 1:59 pm

I must submit that, at least for my recollection, 1984's Top Gun also was a major contributing factor to the insurgence of the A2 and like-minded flight/bomber jackets.

Altho the proper TG look included the lamb's wool collar, and the mix of patches (yes, yes...I had a leather/wool collar TG jacket, with F-14 badges all over it, and predistressed leather) there were those who emulated the look with A2's and bomber style jackets. I remember that, at the time, they were EVERYWHERE! and a lot were available in pre-d condition to match Maverik

Perhaps the LC distresing is a result of the costumers being of the mindset that the audience would not have screen-grab DVD's and access to Wested anytime soon, and thought that the audience would believe that the LC jacket was supposed to be the same jacket thru all 3 films, and with what it went thru in Raiders, as well as whatever had happened to Indy since '36, that by the time LC came along, that jacket would be beat to heck.

EDIT: ok, Lemon beat me to my own point, but it's still a valid theory

Just a thought.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:20 pm

First up, Top Gun was '86 and, IIRC, his jacket wasn't very pre-d at all.

Second, I seem to recall the whole look - which included "acid wash" jeans as arriving around 86/87, well in advance of LC.

So I would say, no.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:24 pm

Indeed, here's a good close up of the jacket - quite a uniform finish.

(Given that I lived and breathed this movie for many of my pre-pubescent and teenage years, I know it probably better than the Indy films even...)

Post by **Ken** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:46 pm

I dont think a whole lot of thought was put into it:

To the wardrobe dept: "Here are 10 Indy jackets. Work your magic"

"How rough you want them to look?"

"Its set several years later. Work it out"

Or something along those lines...

Ken

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 6:30 pm

Yep, Top Gun bears the blame. Stonewashed jeans and a faux Avirex jacket - in Sweden, the look was completed by crammin' down your white tube socks in a pair of Dr. Martens or tassel loafers...

Snakewhip_Sable · Post by **Snakewhip_Sable** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 6:36 pm

Are you suggesting Indy only had one jacket? How many jackets do you all have? Think about that. Is it necessarily supposed to be the same jacket in all three movies? I doubt it. If it was - the bullet hole through the arm would be present in LC, wouldn't it?

Didn't we see several jackets in Indy's closet (along with some boots poorly masquerading as a hat)?

Though I'd tend to agree with Lemon and Gater - it was based on surmised wear and not street fashions of the time.

Gater · Post by **Gater** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 7:47 pm

Rob wrote:First up, Top Gun was '86 and, IIRC, his jacket wasn't very pre-d at all.

Second, I seem to recall the whole look - which included "acid wash" jeans as arriving around 86/87, well in advance of LC.

So I would say, no.

Sorry there, Irwin, didn't mean to err. '86 it was. As for the uniformity of the jacket, the stores were FILLED with pre-d's at the time, all in the 'spirit' of TG. I recall quite distinctly. Especially since I had one that was predistressed.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 7:48 pm

Indiana Gater wrote:
Rob wrote:First up, Top Gun was '86 and, IIRC, his jacket wasn't very pre-d at all.

Second, I seem to recall the whole look - which included "acid wash" jeans as arriving around 86/87, well in advance of LC.

So I would say, no.
Sorry there, Irwin, didn't mean to err. '86 it was. As for the uniformity of the jacket, the stores were FILLED with pre-d's at the time, all in the 'spirit' of TG. I recall quite distinctly. Especially since I had one that was predistressed.

Why are you addressing me by my surname? I find that somewhat discourteous.

Gater · Post by **Gater** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 8:12 pm

Why are you addressing me by my surname? I find that somewhat discourteous.

Sorry. I didn't realize that you were offended by your own name. Just that between you, Kilgour, and myself, there are a few Rob's around, dispite your now-changed Username. Didn't mean anything insulting by it. Won't happen again. If I was trying to be sarcastic or insight conflict, I would have been flippant and called you "IceMan"

Peace.

Swindiana · Post by **Swindiana** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 9:24 am

Whos is this 'Art' guy, and why would he try to imitate and old magazine?

Sorry, I woke up being Swedish today.

I think pretty good comments have been added, just wanted to add that it's an interesting topic there, Al. The circle of 'pop culture' so to speak.

Oh, and on a Swedish travel program a guy went in to a London store and tried on a replica Top Gun jacket. I wonder where that was...

Regards,
Swindiana

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:24 am

Melty Man wrote:
Thoughts? My Wested definitely does NOT look good with parachute pants.

Bink,

Wanna borrow my Members Only jacket? I'll even let you roll up the sleaves.

-Noel

WOOHOO!!! $\:D/$

Actually, I was more along the lines of Simple Minds with the oversized suit jacket with the rolled up sleeves. In fact, I still have one of my favorite GAP sweaters from that era which I wear around the house. It's unfraying like crazy, but I just can't seem to get rid of it.

bink

ob1al · Post by **ob1al** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:42 am

Art...

<img src=http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/icnew ... EC0000.jpg>

Does he imitate life?

<img src=http://www.indygear.com/props/images/Life.jpg>

Captain D · Post by **Captain D** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 12:41 pm

MacGyver's leather/bomber jacket (1980's) looked pretty distreesed at times

....

Kind Regards,
Captain D

p.s- "...does life imitate art"? The assumption that Michael Jackson may be trying to look like Peter Pan may apply here...(I'm sorry, hit below the belt I know, my apologies

....)

ob1al · Post by **ob1al** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 12:43 pm

Below the belt? I would have thought it was a direct punch on the noses.

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 3:49 pm

ob1al wrote:Art...

<img src=http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/icnew ... EC0000.jpg>

Does he imitate life?

<img src=http://www.indygear.com/props/images/Life.jpg>

Swindiana · Post by **Swindiana** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 7:04 pm

Simon says; Thanks for the info there buddy!

Regards,
Swindy

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 7:06 pm

Anyone interested in getting back on track?

Neolithic · Post by **Neolithic** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 3:31 am

Acid wash jeans?
Stone wash jeans?!

There's no I'm-gonna-barf icon...

Definately current fashion trends have an effect on film that is set in a genre or defined era. I think even Raiders looks like an 80s version of the 30s to some extent. (Shock,horror).
Hair styles are usually the thing that gives it away. There's no end of WWII films filmed in the 70s where there is an overabundance of sideburns.

My girlfriend and I were looking at the recent poster for King Arthur and she mentioned that Keira Knightley looked so 90s- her hairstyle and makeup gave it away...

What you say might be right, from a certain point of view.

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 5:41 am

Neolithic wrote: Definately current fashion trends have an effect on film that is set in a genre or defined era. I think even Raiders looks like an 80s version of the 30s to some extent. (Shock,horror).
Hair styles are usually the thing that gives it away. There's no end of WWII films filmed in the 70s where there is an overabundance of sideburns.

True. Unless the costume dep't is really good, the 'shooting era' bleed right through into the 'fictitious' one. Some of the suits in Raiders indeed have a 'mock' feel to them - not quite authentic 1930's... that goes for 'The Untouchables' too, btw...

Hairstyles... I immediately came to think of the sideburns in Star Wars ANH - a dead giveaway for the decade it was made in...

Captain D · Post by **Captain D** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:08 pm

I also like to watch closely to see if the film may match the time-era....for example, I like the history of the Middle Ages and the Rennasiance Period. But if I pop in "Robin Hood; Prince of Thieves" with Kevin Costner to watch....he speaks with a modern-day American accent!

Oh well, lol....

Kind Regards,
Captain D

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:20 pm

Scandinavia Jones wrote:Hairstyles... I immediately came to think of the sideburns in Star Wars ANH - a dead giveaway for the decade it was made in...

Sure, but that's a lil different because we can say it's perfectly fitting for the era SW is set in. If you look at Episode III, you can see they're bringing the wild'n'woolly hairstyle back on some characters so you can see the progression into the look we see in Episode IV.

Well, everyone except for Obi-Wan, of course... he's lost the cool longer hair, and is now moving towards the short parted hair of Sir Alec.

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:33 pm

Interesting! Haven't seen any pics from EPIII... if this is the case, then for once continuity was taken into serious consideration.

Neolithic · Post by **Neolithic** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:19 pm

for once continuity was taken into serious consideration

They've even gone back to using the dodgy computer display graphics from ANH, which I think is quite cool.
You should download the teaser trailer, SJ. I think half of the Western World has seen it now...

From all the Indy films, to me the most 80s scene is the opening Club Obi Wan scene of ToD. There's some guy that tackles Indy with sunnies on- he looks a little too Blues Brothers for me...

One of the things that stuck out in my mind for accuracy to a period was a subtle touch in Saving Private Ryan. When Captain Miller visits his CO, for a moment he looks at the coffee and sandwiches that the officers are enjoying. The food looks believably as 40s ration style. Very cool.

The more I think about it, the more 80s the LC jacket becomes...
It's interesting from what you guys have been saying what a huge impact war style does have on fashion.

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 12:49 pm

I think you're right, Al & SJ - I ascribe to the bleed-through theory.

I had a pre-d leather jacket in the early 80's, they were already out. And people did wear bomber jackets, although not as many before TopGun. But there were a lot of pre-d leather jackets out there (or here, rather, in the US). So I think the current fashions, as well as some attempt at continuity/projected-aging, played hand-in-hand.

(Curious corollary...I don't recall much pre-d leather in the end of the 70s, up to 1980 - sure, member's only and suede, but not pre-d...I wonder if that's why there was less distressing in the opening scenes of ROTLA? Nah, I think they were going that way, it just didn't come across in the dark temple scenes.)

Acid washed jeans, bandanas, high-tops, and pre-d leather...yes, the 80's were actually kind of fun if you distressed your own instead of bought off the rack. A lot of fun we had w/ random bleaching patterns...

ob1al · Post by **ob1al** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 5:31 pm

The Last Crusade jacket is a fantastic lookin' bit of kit - indeed, my own repro Wested LC is my favourite jacket, albeit non-distressed...yet.

But I do believe that the jacket in LC was influenced by the age in which the film was made. I think the 'distressed look' was 'in' before the production started, and the costumiers were to some extent influenced by that when distressing the LC jacket.

It's interesting how the process came 'full circle' - Raiders really introduced (or re-introduced, I guess) the whole 'look' of the leather jacket and fedora - Noodleman was groundbraking in the way she decided to 'stomp' on the lid and then take For's penknife to the jacket - and that created a look which blew the cinema-going public away, yours truly included (as a young lad in Africa at the time, as it happens. My Indy fixation was born at that point, I think, in a crowded makeshift cinema in Chingola).

The LC jacket is built on the foundation Noodleman created, but taken a few steps further as a reaction to the movement ROTLA started.

The concept is just so Back to the Future.

Regards,

Al

Neolithic · Post by **Neolithic** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 5:57 pm

ob1al wrote:The concept is just so Back to the Future. :lol

Then, of course, we'd all be wearing life preservers.