Sweatband folding- crucial for a Raiders hat?

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:01 am

I haven't read a post about it lately, but it has been mentioned here that folding your sweatband will snug up a loose hat. Stills from the film and MK's observance that Vic Armstrong's Raiders stunt hat hat a narrow sweatband have already convinced me to trim my sweatband down to 1 inch wide. I just tried sweatband folding on a new hat, and it has probably snugged the fit up a full size! It takes only a minute to fold, and it made the band bumpy- It didn't show up on the outside of the crown of the new hat, but It certainly would down the road. I don't think The Hat could look like this without a folded sweatband.

If it's true, Ford's hat had to be a size too big. http://www.raidershat.com/sweatbanddrunk.JPG I'm going to block my hat a size or so larger, give it a folded band, an even bigger pleat under the ribbon in the right front dent (there will be room for it), and snug the top of the ribbon up- then I'll have something.

ob1al · Post by **ob1al** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:43 am

I agree it's a possibility.

Looking forward to seeing the results of your reblock and 'folded sweat'.

Neolithic · Post by **Neolithic** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 6:24 pm

Wouldn't they have ensured that HF got a fedora that actually fit?

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 6:52 pm

http://www.regular-guy.com/vic.html What better way to make your bow pop off than to shim an average fitting hat down a full size? (Maybe let some visitor with a big head try it on for size?)

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 8:17 pm

Hunh...that's certainly more believable than the theory about cutting the sweatband down...couldn't really see a logical reason for that.

But folding it in half as a quick way to snug up a hat makes sense. I guess it could also be a thin strip of foam rubber, but folding the band would explain why it seems to go right around - you'd think a piece of foam might be shorter, and not go all the way around.

Hmm...I'll keep listening...

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:04 am

Hmm. That bulge just looks like the tape to me, showing through the hat. I think that is all that it is. Oh, the tape is the material that is sewn to the leather, and contains the reed. I would just about bet this is what you guys are seeing. Fedora

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:46 am

My folded band covers the reed, and the reed (both layers) is only about half the thickness of the leather, or only 1/5 of the thickness of a folded band. (And of course, the point where the leather folds is even thicker.) There's a big gap holding the crown away from Indy's head just over half way up the ribbon. If not a floded band, then stuffing of some sort.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:53 am

3K. What can we do to help you get some better screen cap software?

That'd help us see what you see better.

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 4:12 pm

ob1al · Post by **ob1al** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 5:41 pm

I'm buying into this one - it really looks like a folded sweat or padding of some kind in those grabs.

VP · Post by VP » Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:55 am

I think so too.

antiquity collector · Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:08 pm

It has to be padding. Has anyone tried folding the sweat over? It's extremely uncomfortable and a pain in the a## to do. Putting padding in is the easiest solution.

AC

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:50 pm

I concur with AC. Why fold the sweatband over when all you have to do is stuff something in there. Also, they'd have cut HF's hair before a costume fitting.

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 3:49 pm

Folding a sweatband not only adds thickness to the bottom half of the band, it eliminates a thickness of leather above the band so the crown can mushroom more. I folded my band in under a minute. Just don't try and pop the band out to fold it- do it inside the hat. It's also easy to leave a portion unfolded, so the tightness is adjustable.

antiquity collector · Post by **antiquity collector** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 3:56 pm

You can get any lightweight felt to mushroom if you sit on it and crush it. You don't need to go to all this trouble of folding a sweatband. The way it bulges is almost painfuln when it's folded. No actor would wear it that way for a look that only we seem to be obsessed about.

AC

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 4:06 pm

The painful bulges are there in the pictures. The crown can't mushroom like the Cairo hat if there's no space between the crown and the scull. The band is folded inward. But I have to admit, I'm only proposing a theory, I haven't implemented it yet- I don't have a hat loose enough.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 4:43 pm

You can get any lightweight felt to mushroom if you sit on it and crush it. You don't need to go to all this trouble of folding a sweatband.

My feeling exactly. She was in possession of the original piece for years. She may know much if...

Wait. I got carried away there.

Seriously, AC is absolutely correct. Just look at what Debra Nadoolman said about the hat. She rolled it up, sat on it and had Harrison sit on it. My lightweight Optimo has accidentally been sat on and crushed several times, like a pancake. Now my hat pops out like a mushroom, just like the hat from the film. No tricks, no gimicks. Just reality.

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 3:21 am

3thoubucks wrote:The painful bulges are there in the pictures. The crown can't mushroom like the Cairo hat if there's no space between the crown and the scull. The band is folded inward. But I have to admit, I'm only proposing a theory, I haven't implemented it yet- I don't have a hat loose enough.

Mine was too big. I never got around to getting some padding...but then I saw this thread and folded the band. PERFECT. Now it rides at just the right height, and it doesn't hurt. I assume it doesn't hurt because it was loose before. If it was already a good fit, then yes, folding it would make it a pain to wear - it'd press in too much.

I folded it inward, so at first glance it looks like I cut the band. But it's folded in. It was easy, and certainly easier to do this than go looking for some padding. That itself makes it seem like something folks may have done from time to time. Doesn't fit quite tight enough? Fold the band.

J

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 4:02 am

The crown can't mushroom like the Cairo hat if there's no space between the crown and the scull.

I differ! With a REALLY soft felt and the right block you can archive a mushroom effect beyond good and evil. In fact you can make it mushroom out to a degree where it looks plain silly and you don't even have to wear the hat to do so.

Regards,

Marc

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 7:22 am

How does soft felt put a BIG bump under the ribbon, half way up it, 360?

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 10:20 am

I was talking about the mushroom, not the bump

Regards,

Marc

Texas Jones · Post by **Texas Jones** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 7:12 pm

I always put some padding ONLY in the front under the band, about 2 inches wide and thick enough to tighten the hat where it's ALMOST too tight, and woolah! The crown mushrooms and the brim conforms to the Raiders look. And if you move the padding over to the side a bit, you get the "turn" look without having to turn it. Try it!

Now my hat pops out like a mushroom, just like the hat from the film. No tricks, no gimicks. Just reality.

Okay, who's brave enough to sit on their hat?? Hmm? Takers? Just be sure to take a before and after picture!!!

VP · Post by VP » Mon Nov 15, 2004 7:44 am

I have sat on my Akubra countless times. I have also stepped on it and kicked it a couple of times.

ob1al · Post by **ob1al** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 7:47 am

I've sat on my HJ a few times - it hasn't really helped but it's a relatively thick felt and it really needs a reblock anyway.

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:12 am

Texas Jones wrote:Okay, who's brave enough to sit on their hat?? Hmm? Takers? Just be sure to take a before and after picture!!!

Dakota Ellison had a beautifuly blocked HJ and sat on it about a year ago. I remember him saying his heart sank when he realized what he had just done.

Pyro

Mattdeckard · Post by **Mattdeckard** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:13 pm

I don't really think the sweatband was folded, I think the line is just where his head was touching the leather. bit of a tight hat that left an outline where his head pushed it out.

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 4:26 am

Mattdeckard wrote:I don't really think the sweatband was folded, I think the line is just where his head was touching the leather. bit of a tight hat that left an outline where his head pushed it out.

Oh, come on, Matt, you got a chance to inspect mine at the QM. I just folded the band in my Disney DP 551 and...ah...okay, I'll stop now.

VP · Post by VP » Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:43 am

Pyroxene wrote:Dakota Ellison had a beautifuly blocked HJ and sat on it about a year ago. I remember him saying his heart sank when he realized what he had just done.

http://www.indygear.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4294

Mattdeckard · Post by **Mattdeckard** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:35 pm

Indiana Jerry wrote:
Mattdeckard wrote:I don't really think the sweatband was folded, I think the line is just where his head was touching the leather. bit of a tight hat that left an outline where his head pushed it out.
Oh, come on, Matt, you got a chance to inspect mine at the QM. I just folded the band in my Disney DP 551 and...ah...okay, I'll stop now.

You still need a wire in the brim

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 12:16 am

I thought about that. My Tonaks have bows up on the top of the band, my Miller about a quarer inch down and the pbbm about a half inch down. The Tonak bow has 4 wings and makes an "X", it's center is tacked down while the pbbm's isn't. I suppose the HJ bow could be in the center of the band, and who knows how it's constructed ... I think these bows used to be used to tighten the band, but are just decorative now. Wait a minute- what if the HJ bow was at the top of the band, but the center is not tacked down, like my pbbm's bow- In other words, the center knot could move up a quarter inch above the top of the ribbon. When the band gets folded, the ends of the wings are near the brim, but they fold and the knot is where it is.

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:05 am

Mattdeckard wrote:
Indiana Jerry wrote:
Mattdeckard wrote:I don't really think the sweatband was folded, I think the line is just where his head was touching the leather. bit of a tight hat that left an outline where his head pushed it out.
Oh, come on, Matt, you got a chance to inspect mine at the QM. I just folded the band in my Disney DP 551 and...ah...okay, I'll stop now.
You still need a wire in the brim

RIGHT! Now, considering it's a DP, I scale down all the efforts to an appropriately relative cost...hunh...think those little twisty things that come in a box of garbage bags would work?

Indycraze71 · Post by **Indycraze71** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 4:27 am

Well after reading this post and becoming very curious on this sweat-band folding look and technique I grabbed my PB Raiders took a few minutes and folded up the sweat-band and popped the lid onto my noggin, the results were, well... GREAT!!! The hat now fits a little higher and snugger on my head (like Indy's hat in the Raven Bar scene of ROTLA) after wearing the hat around like this for a couple of days I'm very pleased with the results, it upped the Raider-esqueness of my hat a 110%. I'm so pleased with the look that earlier today I folded the sweat-band of my other Raiders lid and the results were the same... a better more snug fit and improved over-all shape of the hat itself. I do not know if this was the technique used in the film, but you may want to try it out for yourself...I only wished I would have tried it sooner!

Best of Luck, Brett

ob1al · Post by **ob1al** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 4:36 am

For this to work the hat has to be too big for you in the first place surely?

Out of interest, I tried it on my HJ and it made the hat waaay too small.

Indycraze71 · Post by **Indycraze71** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 5:54 am

My PBs always fit really well with no complaints on fit or looks. I've been wearing 'em for quite a while now. It did feel a little tight at first but after a day of wear it fit just fine. I'm very pleasantly surprised it seemed to work so well in my case.

Regards, Brett

ob1al · Post by **ob1al** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:06 am

Thanks Brett, that's interesting...

Did you fold the band all the way 'round, or just sections of it?

IndyBlues · Post by **IndyBlues** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 8:21 am

ob1al wrote:For this to work the hat has to be too big for you in the first place surely?

Out of interest, I tried it on my HJ and it made the hat waaay too small.

I think the same thing, if the hat is too large, this is a great fix, AND a cool way to get a reverse taper to the hat.
Unfortunately, if your hat fits well, I would assume that folding the sweat would cause extreme taper to the crown over time, if not instantly.
'Blues

Indycraze71 · Post by **Indycraze71** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 9:04 pm

Ob1al... I folded it all the way around, half the width of the sweatband on both hats and I found that it wasn't very hard or frustrating to do at all. I must note that on my TOD hat which has a perfect bash and fit this idea did not work at all... there was no way that hat was going to fit on my head with a folded sweatband. I just thought I would try it on that particular hat to see what would happen. Also my PB TOD hat has a much wider sweatband and thicker felt than my ROTLA hats so that could factor in as well. I have experienced no taper over the last couple of days, these two hats seem to be looking more round and Raiders-like than they did before I folded the sweatband. The fit and look is much closer to the Raven Bar scene in ROTLA than before which is my favorite look for an Indy hat even though this theory seemed to come from the Cario Street scenes. I really couldn't be much happier with my experiment on this.

Best regards, Brett