Horse; not so warm

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 10:59 pm

I got to drag my Wested horse out of summer retirement in the past few days as Sydney is deluged by rain and the temperature plummets.

Put it this was, last week we had near 40 degree (celcius) days here in Sydney. This week, it's been raining and all sub 20 degrees.

Last night I was sitting by the harbour with some friends, as you do, and the temperature was about, say, 15 degrees with a chill coming off the water. The Wested horse left me feeling chilly. Not freezing... but certainly not toasty warm, either.

So while the leather is tough, keep in mind that it is still relatively light (although not soft like lamb), and not for cold weather. I would say it bridges the gap between lamb and cow in the warmth stakes, probably overlapping each.

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:00 am

I may have them confused, but I thought the order of the original three was:

cow (warmest)
goat (almost as warm as cow)
.
.
lamb (not nearly as warm as goat)

I.e., BIG GAP btwn goat and lamb.

If that's correct, horse is...where? If I screwed that all up, please take the crayons away from me and draw the picture correctly.

Thanks - J

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:09 am

In that big gap, I would put it probably in the middle. So not immediately under goat, and not immediately above lamb. Sort of straddling a genuine middle ground there.

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:13 am

Do you mean:

cow (warmest)
goat (almost as warm as cow)
.
horsey in the middle all by itself?
.
lamb (not nearly as warm as goat)

...or:

cow (warmest)
goat (almost as warm as cow)
horsey bridging the gap from goat to lamb?
lamb (not nearly as warm as goat)

This is one twisted zodiac.

P.S. thanks for keeping your sense of humor, and for updating us in the first place.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:31 am

I'd say in the middle all by itself, but if it had to lean one way or the other, leaning back towards lamb.

I say this in spite of my opening post because the jacket, on reflection, wasn't offering the warmth of cow. And if goat is near cow, then it can't be near goat either. Because it wasn't freezing, yet I felt a bit chilled.

Meanwhile, I feel it would be warmer than lamb, but maybe not excessively so. Maybe this explains it:

Goat
-
-
Horse
-
Lamb

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 2:11 am

Okay, I get it, thanks.

If more Wested horses get out in the wild (

) and work out the same way, it sounds like the horsehides Peter is using will end up being a slightly warmer, slightly tougher alternative to lamb. Now THAT'S interesting...but it will likely take some time to tell.

Okay, so what do you think of your russet-highlighted one-of-a-kind horse now that you've broken it in a bit? I get the feeling yours, being one of the first, might not be like the later horses he does - you might truly have a one-of-a-kind.

Got to admit, the horse really interests me, so one last (line of) question(s) about it and I'll let you off the hook:
How's the wear/tear so far?
You mentioned some grey peeked through upon distress - still seeing that?

Peter mentioned grey vs. brown underneath had to do w/ how much UV the animal got...I wonder if all grey leather still eventually browns when exposed to UV...i.e., eventually?

Sorry for all the questions! - J

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 11:09 am

Humm. I've never known ANY leather to be a thermal deterrent when the temperatures get below a certain temperature. It's the lining that determines warmth. When I think of how 'warm' a jacket is, it's in the area of 50 to 60 degrees F, with relative humidity, and how much can escape when the jacket is worn, especially when the lining is not the factor. That's why I've always practiced and recommended layering when wearing the jackets as the weather gets colder. The leather is the wind breaker, but when it comes to the chilled air, no leather is going to keep you warm, regardless of type or style. At least that's been my experience with all kinds of leathers over the years. If you have a good lining or layered clothing underneath, even lambskin will keep you warm with it's wind breaking capability. I know, and have worn it in 17 degree F temps myself with layered clothing underneath. Regards. Michaelson

Indiana Jess · Post by **Indiana Jess** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 2:49 pm

Michaelson, that's really interesting. I always figured that because the weight of the leathers seemed to be different, the proctect from the cold was different as well. I learn something new everyday - going to have to be more careful. My friend, is there anything you don't know?

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:31 pm

Uh, sure there is....like, where did I park my car this morning.

Regards. Michaelson

Flattery · Post by **Flattery** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:34 pm

If I just wear a simple t-shirt with a sweater over it, and the lamb on top, it keeps me quite toasty. I actually got hot the other night, even in the wind.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:36 pm

Understood. The things that leather supplies is wind protection, and depending on the leather, abrasion resistance. That's what the hub bub is all about regarding lambskin vs. goatskin, vs. horsehide, vs. cowhide, vs....you get the idea...Regards. Michaelson

Flattery · Post by **Flattery** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:50 pm

Agreed. When it comes down to it, leather is leather. The same goes for any type of clothing -- it'll only provide warmth/protection to a certain degree, which has already been stated in so many words.

But hey... leather does look #### sharp

IndyBlues · Post by **IndyBlues** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:52 pm

So basically, when choosing a leather, one might want to think about which one keeps you cooler in the warmer climes, as opposed to warmer in the colder temps.
'Blues

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 4:02 pm

Yep. Regards. Michaelson

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 7:09 pm

IndyBlues wrote:So basically, when choosing a leather, one might want to think about which one keeps you cooler in the warmer climes, as opposed to warmer in the colder temps.
'Blues

Ah, okay, thanks, that makes me feel better about all the obsessing I did over which one to get because it is too hot here. *Phew*

Michaelson wrote:Uh, sure there is....like, where did I park my car this morning. Regards. Michaelson

And that explains why you are the 'Knower Of Things'...I was wondering why you weren't the 'Knower Of All'...(quick, Jess, write that down - parking lots are his kryptonite! 8-[ )

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 7:23 pm

So in the face of this, why is the typical recommendation lambskin for warmer climes and cowskin in colder ones...?

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:01 am

Well that sure killed the conversation...

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:08 am

Michaelson has spoken...

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:31 am

Nope....he went home last night before this one was asked.

Weight, pure and simple. Lambskin is the lightest weight wise of all the leathers we have to choose from. It's a tight pore skin (that's why leather conditioner is recommended rather than standard dressing. It won't soak it in very well, if at all, depending on the lambskin supplier, and part of the world it came from. You know, diet and all that....) When a jacket is heavier in weight, it tends to push down on the garments worn underneath, and makes you feel hotter in warmer climes, as the perspiration can't evaporate as quickly to to the constricting weight, so you're miserable. Lambskin, on the other hand, does NOT push down due to it's lighter weight, and therefore is a better choice to wear in warmer and more humid areas, as it allows your undergarments a better chance to breathe, allowing perspiration to evaporate much more easily. Of course, when the humidity is higher, and the temperatures are above, say 65 to 70 degrees F, NO leather is comfortable, in my opinion.

Regards. Michaelson

indybill · Post by **indybill** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:22 pm

Yep, Michaelson's got it nailed.
In my experience leather is great at stopping the wind but doesn't provide
much insulation from the cold. Below freezing and I've had to add an
under layer or switch to a jacket made from cotton or other material that
provides a better insulation factor. My favorite is my army M65 field
jacket from my local military surplus store. 3/4 length, 100% cotton, and
bulky enough to add many layers of insulation underneith.

Regards,
Indybill

IndianaGuybrush · Post by **IndianaGuybrush** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:39 pm

IMO, leather is a windbreaker, not an insulator. If you're dead set on wearing a leather jacket in the colder months just make sure to layer up underneath it. It will block the wind, but it will not keep you warm unless you use insulation, preferably a synthetic or wool, since those will continue to keep you warm even after they get wet, while cotton will take heat away from from your body when it gets wet.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:47 am

You know, people will disagree hugely, but I feel that satin heats up with body warmth better than cotton... that might help.

Indiana Joe · Post by **Indiana Joe** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 1:17 am

Michaelson wrote:If you have a good lining or layered clothing underneath, even lambskin will keep you warm with it's wind breaking capability.

A good lining like the shearling sheepskin of a B-3 bomber jacket? Oops, not Indy-related.

Michaelson wrote:Of course, when the humidity is higher, and the temperatures are above, say 65 to 70 degrees F, NO leather is comfortable, in my opinion

Just try taking _'s suggestion of wearing your cowhide in 82 degree heat in high humidity (in Georgia) to get your sleeves to ride up.

Yes, I did it and, it worked! But, why were al those people looking at me funny

:

I.J.