Bag flap images

Lord_Clarence · Post by **Lord_Clarence** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 12:34 pm

I am compiling a collection of images of the markings on the inside of MKVII bags. Purpose: to produce a stencil or other method of marking the WPG repro bag, to make it look more authentic. Therefore, would any of you with said images or bags mind posting them?

Also, what do you think is the best looking marking? I have taken a look at the ones on the IndyGear bag page, and a couple on eBay. They vary quite a bit. I don't suppose we know exactly what markings were on the screen-used ones, do we?

BTW, I plan on incorporating some kind of telltale sign that will distinguish a repro bag from an authentic one; I'm not out to make counterfeit bags, just make the repro more interesting.

Cordially,
Lord Clarence

ArdethBey · Post by **ArdethBey** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 1:13 pm

As for the stencil I'd contact Noel Howard. He may be your best shot. From what I know of the subject the text consists of W&G and the year. As for a mark of a repro, I'd personally leave out the small loop of twine on the right hand side next to the small pocket. It's small, often over looked and useless to the bag for "Indy" purposes. But it's clear to the trained eye and would definately set the bags apart.

Lord_Clarence · Post by **Lord_Clarence** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 1:48 pm

Good ideas. But just to be clear, I'm talking about just doing the marking on a pre-manufactured bag; I'm not making repro bags myself. WPG has that covered better than I could.

I guess there are probably enough cosmetic differences between the WPG and an original that a trained eye wouldn't ever mistake a distressed WPG for an original. But all the same, and for due credit, I think I'll denote "WPG" as the manufacturer, in the style of the old markings.

Cordially,
Lord Clarence

Imahomer · Post by **Imahomer** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 2:34 pm

When I first read your posting I thought; "Why bother?" Then I thought about it and think it might enhance the look of the bag. I would think you would definately want the British Broad arrow marking in addition to anyother markings you might put on the bag.

Mike

Indiana Texas-girl · Post by **Indiana Texas-girl** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 2:48 pm

Did you look on the main page under the Bag section? I didn't see a W&G logo pic, but here a few others I saw:
http://www.indygear.com/gear/images/Bags.jpg
http://www.indygear.com/gear/images/bag_flap_open.jpg

Lord_Clarence · Post by **Lord_Clarence** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 9:11 pm

Imahomer wrote:When I first read your posting I thought; "Why bother?" Then I thought about it and think it might enhance the look of the bag.

That's pretty much the only reason I care. I think it will make the repro bag look neat, without further depleating the world's supply of authentic MKVII bags, for those who really, really want them.

ITG wrote:Did you look on the main page under the Bag section?

Yup, gottum! Thanks!

Cordially,
Lord Clarence

Sergei · Post by **Sergei** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 9:34 pm

Well Lord that sounds like a good idea, stamp it with a "WPG" stamp. I really like the WPG bag, but I do miss the all the funky stamps that come along with the MKVI's and MKVII's. In fact, Jerry at WPG should start stamping his bags. But go for it.

-S

Lord_Clarence · Post by **Lord_Clarence** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 11:49 pm

Sergei wrote:Well Lord that sounds like a good idea, stamp it with a "WPG" stamp.

Please, call me Lord Clarence, or Clarence if you must. It's against my programming to impersonate a deity.

Cordialy,
Lord Clarence MacDonald

Lord_Clarence · Post by **Lord_Clarence** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 12:29 am

Imahomer wrote:I would think you would definately want the British Broad arrow marking in addition to anyother markings you might put on the bag.

I vaguely remember seeing this arrow marking, but I can't figure out where. Can anybody direct me to a site/image? Perhaps it was on the old COW. I definitely think I would like to use it.

The results of this endeavor, of course, I will be eager to share with all of those who have WPG bags, either in the form of digital image for you to print, or making stencils and sending them out. Maybe I can come up with some kind of transfer process... who knows?

Cordially,
Lord Clarence

conceited_ape · Post by **conceited_ape** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 2:59 am

Sorry, must disagree to the nth degree! The WPG bags have gotta remain UNstamped! Think about it. It's only gonna be a matter of time before another novice collector enters our little world, finds him/herself an "authentic" MK VII on ebay, only to find later on that some dishonest b*****d out there has played him for a fool. It could be TOO easy!
To the untrained eye, the bags (except for the loop) are EXACTLY alike as it is! The last thing we need is for the WWII collector's market to be thrown into upheaval in the very same way that the vintage Star Wars market has been tainted, ie; repro vinyl Jawa capes, Leia guns, etc.
Some are SO good that only ABSOLUTE PROFESSIONAL COLLECTORS can tell the difference anymore!

Most of us here are fortunate - we know better.
But now we're almost in the perfect position to take advantage of the ill-informed, and it's just NOT right.

IMHO, there must ALWAYS remain a line between original and reproduction.

regards,

Rod.

Lord_Clarence · Post by **Lord_Clarence** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 3:43 am

Conceited Ape wrote:Sorry, must disagree to the nth degree! The WPG bags have gotta remain UNstamped!

No apology necessary; I greatly value your input, Conceited Ape. In an effort to avoid blurring that line between original and reproduction, I have abandoned the idea of copying any original MKVII stamps. I am working on an original stamp/marking, which I personally feel will add fun and character to a repro bag, that will also clearly mark that bag as a reproduction.

Here is a prototype image. I welcome suggestions, as I take the matter of counterfiet bags very seriously.

If any of you feel this is still going too far, I completely respect that. In that case, I will desist from posting further on this topic and keep it to myself.

I am glad that we can have this discussion; it is interesting and relevant to the process of collecting, and this interesting point of ready availability of "substitute" items.

Cordially,
Lord Clarence

Post by **Indy Magnoli** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 4:00 am

I think that the stamp is a great idea. There is something special about opening your bag and seeing it there... every piece of militaria has that unique serial numbering that you don't see in civilian gear.

Your WPG logo looks great! I'm not entirely sure about the plane though... although it looks great and certainly fits the era and is very Indy-esque, it takes away the official military look of it. I think it's because it reminds me of all the Indy Logo-ing at Disney.

Kind regards,
Indy

Imahomer · Post by **Imahomer** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 11:28 am

I too like the stamp idea. You should be able to find the broad arrow on something. It was put on every military item the British put out.

Lord_Clarence · Post by **Lord_Clarence** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 12:18 pm

I'm not sold on the plane either (which I stole from IndyGear). I want to have something Indyesque on the stamp, to set it apart further from authentic stamps. In fact, I'd like to use something IndyGearesque, like the Trimotor logo that RenderKing is working on for the trading pin project. I can't think of something distinctly Indy that will maintain the military look.

I settled on 1942 as that seems to be a common date for MKVII bags.

Cordially,
Lord Clarence

morgan · Post by **morgan** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 2:07 pm

Nice idea. I like the stamp. I have a real MkVII from Noel Howard and the stamp marking is very faded because its a used one, but that gives it a real indy look.

Have you thought about putting a flaming Shankara stones from TOD instead of the plane in homage to really the only major screen time the bag actually got in all the three movies.

morgan

FloatinJoe · Post by **FloatinJoe** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 2:16 pm

You could always date them 1936 for RotLA. If you do that, there is no way the bag could be misconstrued for a real one.

Mike

Lord_Clarence · Post by **Lord_Clarence** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 2:44 pm

floatinjoe wrote:You could always date them 1936 for RotLA. If you do that, there is no way the bag could be misconstrued for a real one.

I could, at that. I struggled with the idea, because we know that the MKVII didn't exist in 1936. But the more I think about it, I like it. In the Indyverse, it's just "Indy's bag." By stamping it 1936, you more solidly identify it as a fictional, fantasy item. It ceases to be a MKVII repro, and becomes a screen accurate reproduction of Indy's bag, whatever that is supposed to be in the fantasy realm of sacred glowing rocks. No offense meant to those who believe, of course.

Latest iteration

Cordially,
Lord Clarence

Indiana · Post by **Indiana** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 7:03 pm

How did you transfer the logo to the bag?

FloatinJoe · Post by **FloatinJoe** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 7:05 pm

Lord Clarence,

I like the new version of the stamp with the date being 1936 and the mountain as the logo. Looks good.

Mike

Indiana Joe · Post by **Indiana Joe** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 7:54 pm

Lord Clarence,

I like the 1936 date for the Indy Universe as well as the mountain image. I think you're on to something!

Lord_Clarence · Post by **Lord_Clarence** » Tue Sep 03, 2002 12:53 am

Indiana wrote:How did you transfer the logo to the bag?

Photoshop magic! In other words, I didn't. I don't even own a bag yet. I took an image of an actual MKVII, painted out the stamp, and layered my own creation on top of the blank canvas. Just to see how it will look.

I'm still working on how I will actually transfer the logo to the bag. One idea is to find some kind of print transfer medium--I think they have paper you can print on with your inkjet, then iron or somesuch to transfer the image to cloth. Another idea is to create the logo as a stencil, then ink it onto the bag with a permanent cloth marker. I will have to find a scrap piece of canvas someplace and experiment.

The ideal solution is to have a stamp made, but I'm too cheap for that. And I would like to just be able to distribute a file to those who are interested.

Cordially,
Lord Clarence

Post by **Indy Magnoli** » Tue Sep 03, 2002 2:49 am

I like the 1936 idea, and the mountain looks great! Go ahead... create a few more. We know you're having fun!

Kind regards,
Indy

conceited_ape · Post by **conceited_ape** » Tue Sep 03, 2002 2:55 am

Ahh... Now you're cookin' with sauce!
A much more creative compromise!
The RotLA 1936 idea is a great one. Maybe stamps that read: ToD 1935 and LC 1938 could also be good alternatives.

Regards,

Rod

Imahomer · Post by **Imahomer** » Tue Sep 03, 2002 1:03 pm

Since you are going with the year printed on the bag, do you also need to have the word reproduction? At first glance the mountain looks like the British Broad arrow.

morgan · Post by **morgan** » Tue Sep 03, 2002 3:12 pm

I like the mountain more than the plane, although I still like the idea of the sacred stone, buts that just me I'm sure in time "you to will become a true believer!".

If your thinking of doing separate stamps for the three films then your could have the mountain from Raiders, Sacred Stone from TOD and either the Grail or that weird symbol the guardians of the grail have tattooed on their chest from LC.

morgan

Post by **Indy Magnoli** » Tue Sep 03, 2002 5:43 pm

Well, Lord Clarence, you have your work cut out for you. I like the idea of the Brotherhood cross for the LC stamp, but, of course, the Grail is quite appropriate. Wolf had a great image of the cross in his diary-bat font. I'm sure it's in the Diary section of IndyGear.

As for the putting the word "reproduction" on there. My vote is to not. By putting the wrong year and customized logo it's clearly not an original. Sure some people might not know that, but it wouldn't take a lot of research or asking around to check on what original markings look like. It's not our fault if someone buys a coin marked 125 B.C. and believe it to be authentic. My two cents, er drachmas.

Kind regards,
Indy

Lord_Clarence · Post by **Lord_Clarence** » Wed Sep 04, 2002 7:09 pm

I tried the stones just for kicks.

Stones

I think it looks odd. I don't think adding flames would help.

I like the mountain because it is an element common to all three films. (It is, of course, Paramount's mountain logo.) If I were to personally make a ToD bag, I would be inclined to use a Trimotor silhouette, as it's more "military." Perhaps the tank would be appropriate for LC.

Or, we could get away from military, and regard it as just an "adventure bag." In which case, why not the idol from RotL? That would look cool. I'm not inclined to include recognizable religious symbols such as the Ark, Grail or Brotherhood Cross, but that's just my personal opinion.

The mountain satisfies me. But when I manage to get some tests done, and find a good transfer method, I'll be willing to entertain some custom ideas and make them available.

Thanks for all the input and encouragement!

Cordially,
Lord Clarence

Stefan Hills · Post by **Stefan Hills** » Thu Sep 05, 2002 1:32 am

A suggestion for image transfer on the Indy Bag Flap,

If you decide on the image you are looking for the flap, then an iron on sticker will provide you with a crisp and clear image on the flap, with everyday handling it should weather in nicely.
When you have it done, could the rest at Indy gear buy an image from you?
Keep up the great work!
Just a suggestion,

Kind regards,
Stefan

morgan · Post by **morgan** » Thu Sep 05, 2002 6:03 am

I admit the stones don't look as good as the mountain, it was a nice idea at any rate.

morgan

Thefumegator · Post by **Thefumegator** » Fri Sep 06, 2002 10:47 pm

Clarence, both versions of your stamp (the plane and mountain) are GREAT! That's very cool!
I just need a WPG bag to put it on, because I'm not touching my mkVII... you understand.

great work!
Wes

Lord_Clarence · Post by **Lord_Clarence** » Sat Sep 07, 2002 8:58 pm

Thefumegator wrote:I just need a WPG bag to put it on, because I'm not touching my mkVII... you understand.

I would never dream of anybody putting this stuff on their original MKVII bags!

Don't anyone dare!

Now I'm probably going off the deep end, and into Disney territory. But here's something getting away from the fact that we know it's a gas mask bag, and marking it as just a piece of adventure equipment. I feel obligated to continue to acknowledge WPG for their fine work.

Adventure 1

Cordially,
Lord Clarence

Lord_Clarence · Post by **Lord_Clarence** » Sat Sep 07, 2002 9:34 pm

And another:

Adventure 2

Cordially,
Lord Clarence

Rixter · Post by **Rixter** » Sat Sep 07, 2002 9:54 pm

I like the last one with the large plane the best so far! But of course I wouldn't be a real Indy gearhead unless I had something to critique.

...so, here it is; I don't like the Disneyesque "Adventure Bag," plastered on it, and would much prefer it as you originally had, WPW, with something like Repo (Optional since WPW identifies it as such) MK VII C. 1935.

At any rate, you do great work!

Indiana_Jonesing · Post by **Indiana_Jonesing** » Wed Sep 11, 2002 12:37 pm

I like what I see. Keep up the good work.

-Jonesing

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Sep 11, 2002 1:39 pm

...I don't CARE which one you choose. I like them all. I just want one for MY WPG when you're all done. (grins) High regards to creative people! Michaelson

Lord_Clarence · Post by **Lord_Clarence** » Wed Sep 18, 2002 2:53 am

Just to show I haven't been idle. I know, "Put some files up already!" I will, I will...

Cordially,
Lord Clarence

Division 6 · Post by **Division 6** » Sun Apr 06, 2003 10:30 pm

This is very cool.
What's happened with this project?

D6

Paulcrastination · Post by **Paulcrastination** » Mon Apr 07, 2003 12:16 am

Greetings. I'm new to COW, but not new to gear and props. I have recently aquired a few bags and I just thought I'd post my W&G flap. Looks like the scanner picked up more of the fabric texture then it did the stamp, but its still legible. I work with photoshop extensively here at college, I'd like to make a bw version showing the stamp in all its detail. Custom stamps too. Anyone have any matching fonts? I've got one more bag on the way, completely unissued! I'll post the flap from it as soon as it gets here.

<img src="http://www.imgmag.org/images/paulcrastinate/mkvii.jpg">

skywlkr · Post by **skywlkr** » Mon Apr 07, 2003 1:58 am

Lord_Clarence wrote:
floatinjoe wrote:You could always date them 1936 for RotLA. If you do that, there is no way the bag could be misconstrued for a real one.
I could, at that. I struggled with the idea, because we know that the MKVII didn't exist in 1936. But the more I think about it, I like it. In the Indyverse, it's just "Indy's bag." By stamping it 1936, you more solidly identify it as a fictional, fantasy item. It ceases to be a MKVII repro, and becomes a screen accurate reproduction of Indy's bag, whatever that is supposed to be in the fantasy realm of sacred glowing rocks. No offense meant to those who believe, of course.

Latest iteration

Cordially,
Lord Clarence

I like the little Paramount mountain you chose to use. Reminds me of the beginnins of Raiders when the Paramount logo turns into the real mountain and then pans down to Indy, Sapito, and the other guy making their way thru the jungle. Looks cool too.

Luke
<><

morgan · Post by **morgan** » Mon Apr 07, 2003 5:08 am

I'm new to COW, but not new to gear and props. I have recently aquired a few bags and I just thought I'd post my W&G flap. Looks like the scanner picked up more of the fabric texture then it did the stamp, but its still legible. I work with photoshop extensively here at college, I'd like to make a bw version showing the stamp in all its detail. Custom stamps too. Anyone have any matching fonts? I've got one more bag on the way, completely unissued! I'll post the other flap from it as soon as it gets here.

Where did you find the bags, the only sources I know off have very few used bags, unissued are like gold dust.

morgan

Paulcrastination · Post by **Paulcrastination** » Mon Apr 07, 2003 11:41 am

I found them on ebay. Here are the pictures that accompanied the auctions I won. The W&G bag I probably paid about $70 (probably too much) and the second I got for $62off ebay also! I'm really excited about the one I have yet to receive, hope its as good as it looks. I actually just sold one on ebay last night that had a good amount of wear... went for $72. I guess the trick is putting it in the right category and knowing what you're selling. Sorry I can't be of more help, i wish I could say I found a new source for unissued bags.

<img src="http://www.imgmag.org/images/paulcrastinate/mybag.jpg">
<img src="http://www.imgmag.org/images/paulcrastinate/mybag2.jpg">

Kit Walker · Post by **Kit Walker** » Mon Apr 07, 2003 7:33 pm

Lord_Clarence wrote:Just to show I haven't been idle. I know, "Put some files up already!" I will, I will...

Cordially,
Lord Clarence

Lord Clarence,

That is awesome! Actualy I like them all and as you are the creator of these markings the final decision is up to you. And as Michaelson said when you get this worked out I have a WPG ready and waiting for it.
Thanks for the hard work!

Bag flap images

Bag flap images

Personally...