My Expedition to Flightsuits in California for an Expedition

zeus36 · Post by **zeus36** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:23 pm

Just spent the weekend in San Diego and decided to stop in to the Flightsuits store for a peek at the Expedition jacket. I had them build me a custom Stargate SG-1 jacket last year and was very happy with the final product. (Size 44R). I figured that I was a 42-44 suit size and I had just purchased a Wested in 44 lamb off the “worldwide auction site”, and was waiting for it to be delivered.
They had 10-12 Expeditions on the rack, so I grabbed the 44 R (since that is the size I bought) but when I put it on I was swimming in it! The receptionist recommended a 42R but that still seemed baggy. I grabbed a 40R and she fit like a glove. I’m 5’10” 196 pounds and barrel chested, so I was very surprised! Also a bit depressed since I had paid for a jacket that I knew now would not fit. (It is now for sale in the classifieds on this forum.)

I inspected just about every detail of the Expedition (causing a strange look from my girlfriend) and filed it away mentally for comparison with the Wested en-route from the seller in Spain. After looking at the two jackets, I don’t see what details cause the Expedition to be double the price of the Wested. Maybe the details are invisible to the average person…..? The lady in the store told me that they are not doing any custom work for quite some time, not even leather name badges! She said they had and lot of big contracts to fill and until those were completed, no custom options. (Somewhere I read that the store had moved but this is not true, they have decided to remain at the existing facility on Pioneer Blvd.)

I should be heading to London next spring and I may just wait for then to stop in for a personal fitting with Wested, with a laundry list, sourced from this forum, of modifications. Or if a great deal shows up before then, I may grab a size 40.

I picked up a Banana Republic jacket (size 44!) two weeks ago almost identical to the one in my avatar for 15 bucks at a thrift store! This thing is full hide and thick, in a nice dark seal color. No knit cuffs or waist, no shoulder pads or oversize sleeves like the 80’s jackets I usually see.

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:37 pm

Don't jump the gun here. Wested's can run a bit smaller due to European sizing. I can wear a Wested 44 just fine (I own one in LC styling in new finish cowhide, as a matter of fact), but own and wear a 42R Expedition, and it's a bit large because I wanted to ben able to wear a sweater underneath in winter (which I do with no problems.) A 40R Expedition with longer sleeves fits me perfectly if only wearing a shirt underneath. I'm 6 foot 1 1/2 and 200 pounds. You may want to try on that Wested FIRST before selling it! From the way I'm reading your post, you haven't even done that yet, or have you? Regards. Michaelson

zeus36 · Post by **zeus36** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:44 pm

I got back home on Tuesday of this week and the jacket was waiting for me. Way too big. It's the one for sale in the classifieds. Good info to know on the sizing though!

Michaelson, you should really get one in lamb.......

PM me and I'll work out a deal or trade. I need a Fedora (ROTLA) or maybe a 42R Wested

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:46 pm

Hummmm. something to consider.... what size hat you wear, just to be nosey?

Regards. Michaelson

zeus36 · Post by **zeus36** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:53 pm

Usually 7 1/4 or about a 58 for those metric fans. I was gonna buy a Federation Deluxe, then I see Fedora is going to be a maker;
after that I saw pictures of the Optimo in the comparision shots and I was leaning that way.... NOW Herbert Johnson in Germany is up and running a new website. My head is spinning with options.

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:58 pm

Durn, to small a head. Well, humm.. regards. Michaelson

Lao Feng · Post by **Lao Feng** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 5:15 pm

I feel your Pain! (Reference Expedition Sizing Madness).

1. Me: Chest 39/40/41 (depends on my work out) Weight: 142 Waist: 33-34 Height: 5'10"

2. I own an old Avirex A-2 in size 42..great fit. 18 years old

3. I ordered an Expo Size 42: So big I nearly suffocated in it.

4. They exchanged size 42 for size 40: Still TOO big. Like Michaelson I could have kept it because I could put 3 layers under it easily: T-shirt, cotton Shirt, sweater and still not even pull a seam. BUT...still very big

5. I am currently involved in having yet another exchange for a size 38 R with 38L sleeves (38 Reg has sleeves at 33.5 inches...too short. Size 40 R has sleeves at 34...they work...but G & B will only put 38L sleeves on it at 34.5 inch. Hope the ride up takes care of extra .5 inch)

Bottom line: These Expo's run real big. For example. The "finished measurement" of a size 38 R will be 49 inches in the chest.

Also FYI...The G & B customer service folks are really great, patient, and understanding. Some have clearly had training dealing with emotionally disturbed customers like myself.

So...I, Lao Feng, seem to have to go from a size 42R Avirex A2 (old WW 2 pattern) DOWN to a Size 38 R Expo.

Like a woman who cannot psychologically adjust to going up to a bigger size...I find myself wondering if I am shrinking by going down to a G & B size 38.

Is there a licensed psychiatrist on this Forum!@#$$@@ ??? H-E-L-P!!!

Cheers--Lao feng

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:32 am

Lao Feng wrote:38 Reg has sleeves at 33.5 inches...too short.

Weird... a Wested in the same size has 24 inch sleeves.

See here: http://www.wested.com/sizing.html

Either there's a mistake somewhere in all of this, or perhaps the jackets are cut differently to have such bizarrely different arm lengths? Still, 9.5" seems waaaaaay too big a difference for it to simply be a different cut.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:38 am

INDIANAMIKEY wrote:I was just thinkin' he made a typo, and meant 23.5......

If so, then he did it twice, because he then starts talking about 34.5" sleeves.

Mr. Das · Post by **Mr. Das** » Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:20 am

Sleeves are probably measured different from Wested. It's probably measured from the centre of you neck to your first thumb knuckle instead of Wested's shoulder tip to first thumb knuckle.

Lao Feng · Post by **Lao Feng** » Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:37 am

Hi--No mistakes here, gents.. Wested and G & B measure the sleeves differently.

Wested measures the sleve length FROM seam at shoulder on down...just the legnth on the sleeve

G & B measures from middle of collar, across top of shoulder, down the sleeve. This is standard US measurement style...which is why a US dress shirt will have sizes such as 17 " neck 33/34" sleeve.

Cheers--Feng

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:51 am

Ahhhhhhhhhhh, I see

zeus36 · Post by **zeus36** » Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:19 pm

I think Wested's method makes the most sense. Why include your neck and trapeziod area in sleeve length? I would think sleeves would be just your actual arm length. Then you could have a seam-to-seam across the shoulders for a chest width. When you combine the chest width with a waist measurement, you would get a better fitting jacket. I could be wrong...

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:33 pm

No, I agree with you.

And, to be honest, I think the Wested method is easier for people to do accurately, which is very, very important when you're not being measured in person by the people making the garment.

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:13 pm

I agree. I never understood the middle of the neck, over the shoulder, and down the arm measurement. What if you had wide shoulders and short arms. Or, narrow shoulders and long arms. Makes more sense to me to measure the shoulders for that part of the jacket or shirt. And, measure from the shoulder to the wrist for the sleeves.

zeus36 · Post by **zeus36** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:12 pm

Went back to Flightsuits on Tuesday,
on my way to our corporate headquarters and
spent about 45 min. trying on most of their jackets( I was alone this time)
They have a 44 S dark lamb in their clearance rack for $199.00,
I really wanted it but it was just the wrong size.
I noticed that three of the 40R in lamb all fit just a bit different-
it was tough to tell the fit on the larger sizes.
I like the goat as it was very soft and draped well, however,
the lamb was almost too soft, like a cheap feeling faux leather.

Lao Feng · Post by **Lao Feng** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 9:19 pm

Dear Zeus -- Sounds like you had a quieter visit than last time.

So...help me review the bidding...you thought you were a size 44 but you think a size 40 Expo fits better due to the "generous" Expo "cut"? Intersted in your views. Cheers--Feng

ob1al · Post by **ob1al** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 9:33 pm

What is it with the Expo?

Why can't a 44 mean a 44? It's not the 80's and we don't want to dress like Dom Johnston in Miami Vice....at least I hope we don't...

That bugs me!

::rolls up sleeves on Wested to elbow height and buys an alligator, and a boat to live on...or was that Lethal Weapon...I seem to recall a boat and an alligator in Miami Vice too....???::

zohar · Post by **zohar** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 9:35 pm

I didn't have a problem with mine. I wear a 48L suit jacket, and bought a 48 Tall Expo, and it fits perfect.

zeus36 · Post by **zeus36** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 12:02 am

Lao Feng wrote:Dear Zeus -- Sounds like you had a quieter visit than last time.

So...help me review the bidding...you thought you were a size 44 but you think a size 40 Expo fits better due to the "generous" Expo "cut"? Intersted in your views. Cheers--Feng

I don't think it's a problem with the Expo, they seem made a bit roomier for layering. I think I'm the source of the confusion. I went to C&R and they measured a 42 chest, 35 waist, 16.5 neck, 32 sleeve, 16" biceps with what's called an "athletic" build? I call it stocky. Told me to buy 16.5/32 shirts and a 42R jacket. Guess that I am used to buying 44R in coats/jackets made overseas or something similar. I tried on one of Gibson/Barnes "Palisade" motorcycle jackets in 42 and that fit like a glove.
42 in the Expo was just baggy.

Even shirts are a problem. Recently, my company gave out free corporate polos and the large shirts made in America are huge- what I would consider built for a large man. (6' 1", 200+ pounds) I had to trade it in for a medium and my co-workers thought I was nuts. Seems to be normal to wear stuff oversize around here. I think they look sloppy with their baggy polos. If I get a polo manufactured overseas (I don't wear polos however) then I need a large. I think the seams should lie at your shoulders, not 2-3 inches below them. Looking for Indy-esq. shirts I find sometimes a large is just right, more times a medium is perfect.

I now have swapped my Wested 44R for a Wested 42R. When it gets in from France, I'll post the fit results. If it's still a poor fit, then it is time to get a custom job!

Lao Feng · Post by **Lao Feng** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 10:57 am

Dear Z-36--Thanks for the come-back. Well...if you think "the problem is you" ..then... I have the same problem..just a bit smaller.

My suit size is a consistant size 40R. My chest is 40, waist 33. The size 40R Expo I received was really big on me..in waist and from the gussests on down. Also, the shoulders were off mine to point wehere vertical edge of back panel was alsmost off shoulder as well.I was able to put 3 layers under it (T-shirt, cotton shirt, sweat shirt) and never even tug at a seam up top when I streched all around.

I'm waiting for a size 38 R with 38L sleeves. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Somewhere on this forum someone once said that ordering one size DOWN in the expo was not unheard of.

best of luck--keep us posted.

Cheers--Lao Feng

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 10:59 am

Y'know, it's almost like this jacket was simply mis-labelled. Is that a possibility?

jbbowers · Post by **jbbowers** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 2:02 pm

Hmm, I wear a suit size 46S, maybe this 44S will fit all right ...

Brad Bowers

zeus36 · Post by **zeus36** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 11:35 pm

Indiana Irwin wrote:Y'know, it's almost like this jacket was simply mis-labelled. Is that a possibility?

I tried on a whole range of their Expedition jackets, from 38 up to 46.

I found the size 40 the best fit for my taste, although the four size 40 Expos I was able to check out had slight differences in the fitting.

This I think is normal, as someone else posted on this forum,

these are hand cut and built by humans, not machine made.
I even sampled some of the other leather jacket offerings,
(A2, German Luftwaffe, motorcycle, Raider, Military CWU, B-3, Skyliner.)
Some fit just right, others did not.
I should have taken notes and posted them here!
Different jackets have different cuts/style but I found a bit much variation in off-the-rack sizing (for a picky person like me).

zeus36 · Post by **zeus36** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 3:25 pm

FOLLLOW UP:

Just got the 42R Wested in from France. I still think I could wear a 40R !
(maybe Langpuss put the bug in my ear)

I get about 4.5 inches overlap at the TOP of the jacket (measured from zipper teeth to zipper teeth)and the seams on the shoulders extend almost an inch below my shoulders( reason for the TOD seam photo I posted) I have the straps pulled all the way in, giving me a good taper to the waist, but a lot of strap hanging (or stashed inside the handwarmer slits)
The sleeves are one inch too long but that is no big deal. Perhaps this is the roomier model vs. the 80's fit?

I tumbled it on no heat in the dryer for a couple of hours, then slept in it last night. Took it off this morning and put it back in the dryer on low heat with a damp towel for about 15 min. It was a nicer fit after that, but seems to have loosened up to it's original dimensions.

It will do until I get to visit Wested in the spring. Just need to get rid of that French perfume smell!