If Wested's are cut from the original patterns...

[Rob]

If Wested's are cut from the original patterns, why do I see so many suggested nips and tucks on this forum to make them 'screen accurate'? Doesn't the very nature of what Peter's doing make it screen accurate to begin with?

I hope someone can answer this for me because, personally, I'm happy with the jacket Peter brings to the table and made very few changes to the one I recently ordered (just an all-cotton interior, X-Boxes on the side because I like the look of them & underarm gussets which seems to be under debate as to whether they were there or not in the first place).

Meanwhile, I keep seeing things like the recent post: tell peter to move the yoke-seam 1" above the sleeve seam, Wich is also screen accurate. and I think to myself "huh?"

I mean, if the jacket we saw on-screen has a yoke seam that was an inch above the sleeve seam - it would be a feature of the jacket already, surely? To make such a change is surely changing the screen jacket, given that Peter is reproducing from the original plans?

I'm really confused about this. Is it a case of people thinking they see extra bits on their DVD copy of Raiders, or is it something more? All comments appreciated.

[Scandinavia Jones]

Excerpt from the secret protocol of the Hermetic Order of Orthodox Gearheads /i]
(Ordo Capii Utilitaricii Orthodoxis)
Legendary Adventurer: "Brethren, we experience a grave disturbance among us."
Dig Leader: "How's that, oh Exaulted One?"
Legendary Adventurer: "A gearhead... in Australia."
Museum Curator: "Ah... these Aussies. Always bothering people with their (sneers) sound, sceptical attitude!"
Dig Leader: "What problems does he cause?"
Legendary Adventurer: "He asks... questions."
Museum Curator: "Bothersome questions."
Dig Leader: "Oh! The insolence!"
Dig Worker: "What do you suggest, gentlemen?"
(Silence. Fedora brims being stroken, Westeds creak softly)
Legendary Adventurer: "This... person, he...must be dealt with."
Dig Leader: "What about our old contact in Oz? could he take care of it?"
Museum Curator: "Whoever we get on the job, that person must exercise... extreme... prejudice."
Legendary Adventurer: "So be it! This matter will be dealt with immediately."

[Rob]

Did you never wonder what happened to your old Oz contact?

[IndyBlues]

I think what happened is when Peter originally offered the jacket, there were a few details that he may have missed(to err is human, after all), and the COW community was there to "help" point out all the innacuracies that sprung up. Peter complied, because thats the kind of guy Peter is.
He loves a happy customer.

We were also there to "complain" about certain little things being "too screen accurate", and caused problems with everyday wear.
Like not enough room inside the jacket to wear a winter parka, or maybe a suit of iron , so again, Peter came to the rescue and altered things to allow a person to wear a garment underneath in colder weather.

After awhile, "screen accuracy" minded folks started asking for changes to make the jacket more like the film jacket, hence the little things you see pop up from time to time, from newer members that may receive a brand new Wested, only to realize that the changes made over the years to aid it's function, ALSO took away from the screen accurateness of the jacket.

So you see, as the great Bart Simpson once said, (or was it Kierkegaard)?

"You're ###### if you do, and you're ###### if you don't"

I'm sure Peter has uttered this phrase several times in the past.

[Bufflehead Jones]

They say you can't please all of the people all of the time, and neither can Peter.

[Indiana Joe]

Man ordering a jacket is getting confusing...

So for my next jacket, I'm ordering a Raiders authentic lamb, with fight scene accurate gussets, black sliders, xbox patterns, shortened collar width, decrease armhole size, increased armhole angles, extra inch added in front, hidden press studs, elevated back panel, and screen accurate niggles!

I have no idea how Peter keeps his sanity, god bless the man.

I think this is great customer service. It makes me think of some of the common modifications that gearheads seem to request most often.

Speaking solely of the Wested Raiders jacket----for all the work Peter is putting into the sleeve angle, if the change begins to appear in the Raiders jacket then will other changes also appear such as the shortened collar width, xbox patterns, cargo pocket size and placement, etc.? I'm just thinking that if these subtle yet important tweaks continue to get attention then, ultimately it would save Peter a lot of time and paperwork b/c there would be less requests to alter the Raiders jacket (with the exception of size differences, "my left arm is 1 1/2 inches longer" etc.).

Just some thoughts,

I.J.

[ob1al]

If Wested's are cut from the original patterns, why do I see so many suggested nips and tucks on this forum to make them 'screen accurate'? Doesn't the very nature of what Peter's doing make it screen accurate to begin with?

I hope someone can answer this for me because, personally, I'm happy with the jacket Peter brings to the table and made very few changes to the one I recently ordered (just an all-cotton interior, X-Boxes on the side because I like the look of them & underarm gussets which seems to be under debate as to whether they were there or not in the first place).

Rob, some of the nips and tucks discussed on the forum are not intended to make the jacket more screen accurate - they are intended to make the jacket more practical for everyday use. By this, I mean things like adding an inch to the front to prevent the oft-touted 'ride-up'; changes to the action pleats over the years making them wider and stitched behind the side-straps in an attempt to prevent them hanging open and changes to the design of the side-straps to stop them tearing out. Other tweaks are indeed in the 'screen accuracy' school, like changes to the pocket placement and width of the storm-flap, x-box stitching, moving the yoke seam and so on.

I've heard a few versions of jacket-lore and I don't pretend to know the whole story - I leave that aspect to our more eminent community members - but basically as I understand it the original patterns for the raiders jacket were lost (don't know if this is still the case, whether they were later found or whatever) when it came time to make the jacket for LC.

The pioneers of Indy gear and all who have since followed in their footsteps have continually campaigned to improve the quality and accuracy of the jacket that’s available to us today, in terms of leather types, screen-accurate detailing and so on. This is a continual, ongoing process - for instance, Peter has mentioned that he is considering altering the design of the sleeve angle recently and has only just introduced Horsehide as an option.

Regarding the gusset question, I believe Peter himself has definitively answered this several times:

'I can confirm that the gussets in the Indy films were all of two piece construction, I can also confirm that some of the jackets had gussets and some did not which is why it confuses and causes controversy.'

I just don’t think there is room for debate here; Some jackets had gussets and some did not, simple as that, so ‘screen accurate’ can mean depending upon which scene someone is talking about or wishing to emulate. There is no right or wrong answer to this one.

Perhaps someone can expound on the lost patterns aspect of the story?

[Michaelson]

The patterns were (according to Peter) lost for a time, as they really didn't expect to be making any more of the Indy jackets when they were originally made, and were really noticabilly missing when LC was made. Most of that jacket was made from memory and guess work (as can be seen in the collar size!), before the original patterns were relocated. By then it was to late, and the LC jacket was born and delivered to the prop folks at Paramount. Regards. Michaelson

[Rob]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh, so that's the story of the big collar?

I'm quite looking forward to my LC jacket with its 'enormous' collar

[Captain D]

Interesting history there!

When I was younger, before I found COW, I just "assumed" that they made the collar larger to accomodate Ford's face, lol. I just thought that if they made the collar smaller (as seen in "Raiders"), and with Ford's face a lil' heavier, it would have looked un-proportioned.....Funny to think back on such things!

Kind Regards,
Captain D

p.s- Congrats on your new jacket my friend when she arrives!

[Rob]

I went for the big collar primarily because I'm going for the LC look, and I'd feel too much of a faker if I got the LC jacket in all but the collar. Also, I don't mind the larger collar look... 0.5 of an inch isn't that much of a difference, either.

[Michaelson]

I've never had an LC Wested in my hands until recently, and that's the one currently hanging in my closet. That collar size DOES take some getting used to, doesn't it? Once done, though, it's not all that bad! I was surprised, to tell you the truth, as I've always owned and seen the Raiders style (my personal favorite, by the way), but have no regrets now owning an LC. Regards. Michaelson

[Skippy]

Scandinavia Jones your post had me rolling in the isles Priceless!