PHOTO PROOF- Raiders hat- ORIGINAL BASHES FORMED ON BLOCK!!!

Richard~Buxton · Post by **Richard~Buxton** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:09 pm

Interesting analysis Pagey.

I wouldn't mind a Pork pie right now.

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:31 am

Pork pie or open crown, the sides transition to the top of a hat with some form of a corner. A lowered rear puts a bash trough a corner. The line around the outside of the crown is what's remarkable. Still, I think the dimples in the Raiders hat are different than yours. As on the ouside of the hat, there would be an outer line of fuzz, due to the extreme corner of a pork pie, with an especially prominent grove to the inside of the fuzz line.

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:28 am

I watched a couple of American "Westerns" today. The first one, I don't know it's name, featured the actor "Slim Pickens". He wore an un-pounced hat, open crowned. It was obvious it was once a telescope crown. Next I watched the John Wayne film "War Wagon". Robert Walker Jr. (Ensign Pulver, Easy Rider) wore a transformned telescope too. A Nazi agent in "Raiders" wore an open crowned previously bashed hat, possibly Ford's grey. Hollywood doesn't seem to require an original, pristine bash. How you doin' with Nadoolman and Mrs. Landis Dakota?... Pagey, your last pic is distorting things, I think...

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 3:42 am

Well, I got the the Squatter, and it isn't "IT". Although it is a thin felt, 5 1/2 inches tall when open crowned hat , and the brim was a nice 3 inches front and back, 2 7/8 sides, it just had too much taper over all. Even with a folded sweat and two pleats in the crown, and a matchbook. .... NEXT....!?

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 12:43 pm

NEXT....!?

May I show you a HJ Poet my friend!!! Just kidding 3M$. I am still watching you though and look forward to the next hat. regards, Fedora

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:14 pm

3thoubucks wrote:.... NEXT....!?

How bout an Adventurebilt?

Keep up the good work my friend!

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:32 am

These aren't just lines, they are deep nasty scars that were with the hat in England as well as Tunisia. That just happen to go in a circle around the top of the crown. Show me a "Poet" manufactured with a telescope bash, and I'll be interested. Found this last night... Running with the idol... In England. See how the line enters the upper top corner of the bash.

Just where you would expect it to on this side of the hat.

Why is it important? A telescope bash distorts the felt permanently. Look at my Jaxon teardrop popped up. Doesn't look like an open crowned Poet, does it?

If a telescope bash didn't distort the Raiders felt much, then it's not too important. But a Raiders hat that didn't used to be a telescope ... Just ain't a Raiders hat like the Raiders hat.

Have another. Running with the idol, different frame.

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:27 am

I must say, no one researches this lid like you do. Your findings are quite intriguing, indeed! I know how you feel about wanting to find the perfect Raiders lid, and I eagerly await the day you post here saying that you've found it. Until then, keep working, my friend. I always enjoy seeing what you come up with.

Regards,

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 10:49 am

I hate to be selfish here, but personally I hope he NEVER finds it. Close enough, but never the 'Perfect' hat, as if he DOES finally find it, he'll be done, and we won't have any further research to read. I also enjoy seeing someone pursue something with such relish, and he definitely has pursued this like a bloodhound! Well done!!! High regards! Michaelson

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:06 am

Just to throw some nuts and bolts into the gears. That line could very well be left by the pouncing machine. When a hat is pounced, the break where the sides become the top is the sharpest angle on the hat. When the hat is pounced, special attention must be given to this break area. Sometimes, the pouncer hits this area too hard, or too much. The result is a thinner felt than the rest of the hat. I can replicate this easily, too easily.

I had to eat a couple of hats early on due to the learning curve. This could also be the line you are seeing.

Also, it would surprise me if HJ actually sold hats with the telescope crown, if dress hats were what they sold, and not the western type. Could be wrong on that one though. Fedora

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 3:57 am

So Fedora, .... are you willing to get amaturish with your pouncing machine again, ... upon request?

I suppose your theory might be true!.. .... J_Weaver, I am interested in something like the Akubra "Pastoralist" It's the only thing I haven't tried yet! That kind of bash is called a "tight telescope" ....

... There's a little black telescope crown in the 91 catalog, Fedora. I think it says "Pork Pie Hat". It doesn't have as much taper as my Squatter.

I'll tell you what, guys. I'm enjoying my Akurbra Squatter and Colly. It's not a total loss. How can you be here 6 years and not own an Akubra?

Dakota Ellison · Post by **Dakota Ellison** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 9:38 am

The line was from turning the open crowned hat upside down and wearing it that way to get that bulge when you shape it properly. No??....Oh well.

rick5150 · Post by **rick5150** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 2:41 pm

Okay, for the record, let me tell you that I do not buy this for a minute. Now with that out of the way, check this out

:

Take rather lightweight fur felt hat that may have a little taper as seen from the front, but not so much that is it will not fit over a block without wetting it...

Put the hat on the block (or hat shaper, like I used) completely sideways while dry. Remember your 90 degree turn theory?

You will find that the hat wrinkles at the top. I have done this twice and cannot seem to get the hat pulled down over the shaper all the way(without wetting it). My intent was to widen the hat from side to side and it left marks exactly like the ones that you are referring to in those pictures. Pretty much the same spot too.

Try it out to see what I mean...

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:35 am

I believe you Rick. If you stretch felt over a shape, it's going to get thin anywhere there's a corner, like the transition from the side to the top of a block. But I gotta tell you, I bought 5 "bashes made on the block" hats this year, a Tonak "c" bash, a Miller 256, Jaxon Iconoclast, Akubra Colly, and an Akubra Squatter, ALL before I even noticed the line. Because I STILL have never seen another totally satisfying "Raiders" hat yet..because I believe the felt is distorted on top, unlile a plain open crown hat.

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:19 pm

OK, this is gonna sound like I'm crazy, but...hold on I am crazy!

While looking at the color of Indy's hat in the plane scene, I noticed that there is a man sitting several rows behind Indy. He appers to be wearing a brown hat, the crown look telescoped and the brim has quite a bt of roll in it. Could this be the Cairo hat with a different bash? If so it would explain the marks in Indys hat. Like you pointed out 3thoubucks, the marks seem to be the remians of a telescope crown. I find this to be possible since we know (I think) that the same hat was used by a few different people.

1. The Nazi in the plane is wearing one of Indy's hats. (so I've been told?)
2. The Nazi in Cairo is wearing a gray hat with the remains of a tight front pinch. The same hat Indy wore on the plane and at the end of the movie?

So what do you think, could this be the key?

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:01 am

I thought of that too. 3 or 4 weeks ago I checked, and that hat isn't enough of a hat to become a Raiders fedora.

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:22 am

Yea, I didn't think that dog would hunt, but you never know.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:35 am

Just got caught up on this thread. 3M$, I have tried so hard to see that preformed crown that you see, but just can't do it. Each characteristic that you show, and list has other, more plausible explanations. I was watching the old VHS tape of the Making of Raiders, and cound not find any of those signs on the stunt hats. It just seems a leap to me to think that the costume folks got a telescope crown and then turned it into a fedora. Expecially when the fedora stock was already being made by HJ.

I think the "open stock" remark was just a way of saying it was regularly stocked, a set offering from HJ. regards, Fedora

Indiana Wayne · Post by **Indiana Wayne** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:31 pm

I like this theory, 3thoubucks. I like all of your theories.

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 2:23 am

3K$,

While I whole-heartedly admire your dedication to the Raiders lid, and hold a high respect for you, I really have to ask you, what's the point of all this? I'm not about to say: "Get an Adventurebilt, and leave it at that", like everyone else, but I am just thinking about all the money you've spent on hats to toy with, and all the TIME you've spent toying with them, and it just boggles my mind.

Far be it for me to tell you what to do, or how to spend your money. I am just curious as to what it is you're trying to replicate. The Raiders hat? I mean, there were SEVERAL Herbie J's used in Raiders, not just one. Different hats were used for different scenes, and that's just with Harrison Ford. That's not mentioning all the stunt double hats that were used throughout shooting, as well. The only commonality that these hats share is that they were Herbert Johnsons.

It's one thing when a hatter claims to be the hatter for a film, but it's quite another when the costume designer of said film also confirms this fact, on FILM, no less.

You can't possibly believe that you can replicate ALL of the nuances of the Raiders hat. What you'd have to do, if that were the case, is replicate every last nuance of every hat used in the film, and if you tried that, you'd end up with a big ball of fur and a ruined hat.

Do you see a plateau at some point? A plateau in which you will finally find the right hat that allows you to replicate the Raiders lid perfectly (which, not to be a killjoy or anything, I don't see happening, ever), or a plateau in which you finally say: "To heck with it!"? What do you see happening?

Please don't be mad at me. I don't mean this in an insulting way, I have just been curious about this for too long, and I finally had to ask.

Regards,

Mattdeckard · Post by **Mattdeckard** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 11:05 am

Maybe the hats were all added in post production.

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:35 am

Strider, there was possibly only one Raiders hat, and the Hawaii hat. Maybe a 3rd hat that gets a bunch of white powder dumped on it in the cave. The main hat is always turned, and has a bizarre channel under the ribbon in the front bash over Indy's right eye. The Hawaii hat isn't turned/bashed off center. The Hawaii shots were the filmed last, the Cairo hat was on it's last legs, they needed a new hat for the beginning of the movie. Why didn't they turn it? If they had a bunch of interchangeable hats, they'd be used to turning 'em to get the look. Or why didn't they just use one of the numerous identical turned hats you think they already had? The dock hat and the tarantula hat were the main hat before it was turned, those were the first shots filmed. ... Just turning the hat gives you 70% of it's "nuances", the correct block would give you another 20%. As for agreement between hatter and costumer, Nadoolman denies that Swales was involved with the Raiders hat, and she calls it "their Australian model", not the Poet. Can't say if I'll ever plateau.

Mattdeckard · Post by **Mattdeckard** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:58 pm

So, what part of the hat do you think was just accidental and not planned?

Mattdeckard · Post by **Mattdeckard** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:40 am

So am I uncontested in the hat being a cut down Akubra theory?

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:54 am

Good grief, Matt, why did you drag this 5 year old thread from the depths?

You might want to read through this thread for your answer:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45995

Regards! Michaelson

PHOTO PROOF- Raiders hat- ORIGINAL BASHES FORMED ON BLOCK!!!

Re: PHOTO PROOF- Raiders hat- ORIGINAL BASHES FORMED ON BLOCK!!!

Re: PHOTO PROOF- Raiders hat- ORIGINAL BASHES FORMED ON BLOCK!!!