PHOTO PROOF- Raiders hat- ORIGINAL BASHES FORMED ON BLOCK!!!

[3thoubucks]

Please check these two shots from the basket chase. The light line circling the top of the crown isn't just a temporary dust stain, because, PLEASE NOTE!,- there are dark shadows just above the line. Here's a hat I firmly finger pinched into a pork pie configuration. (no steam) I put some masking tape around the top ridge. Then I turned it and bashed it without repositioning the tape. ........I'm looking for three things in a "bashes formed on the block" ORIGINAL Raiders hat. (1) A mechanical transition (block formed corner) at the top of the front pinch. (LOOK where the tape is there!!!!) This gives you a well defined, sharp, top of the pinch. (2) Bumps only in the right rear of the top bash- (BINGO!) I was also looking for - (3)- Small, block formed front bashes. A pork pie doesn't have those, but it leaves a crease where perhaps any size front bash could quickly index itself. ---- Well, it may not have been a pork pie, but I think these basket chase shots prove the Raiders hat had some type of block formed original bashing!! I've experimented with the block formed "C" bash and block formed telescoping tear drop, but the PORK PIE may be the one! I got the idea from this site, where they say the "Squatter" is their choice for an Indy hat. http://www.everythingaustralian.com.au/ ... 0&cat_id=2, but the Gymkhana looks like it might even work- still a little taper though. http://www.everythingaustralian.com.au/ ... 0&cat_id=2 ..(A couple notes- The light colored area in the left rear of the top bash on my hat had the dye boiled out of it when I reblocked this hat- it's not a bump. The tape line looks higher on my hat- I'd guess the Raiders hat had a higher more rounded dome than my home-made shot in the dark block?)

[Snakewhip_Sable]

Somehow, now, I think all of us here are a little bit insane. Just a little.

Interesting theory though.

[Canyon]

3thousand, that's very hard to understand when you've got a hangover, but interesting, none the less.

[Snakewhip_Sable]

I was thinking the same thing, Ms. Canyon. LOL

[3thoubucks]

Cheers!

[Canyon]

Cheers!

aarrghh..cheers....drink.....alcohol.....can't.....take.....it....

[Indiana Wayne]

Interesting theory 3thoubucks! Is that your Indiana Miller or your PBBM?

[3thoubucks]

Miller with a stove pipe block. I'm going to get a Squatter. It has too much taper, but the circle on the Raiders hat looks tighter than the circle on my Miller- more taper could explain that. I'm a 56 or 57, I'll order it in a 58 or 59 and cinch the ribbon greatly. That will get rid of some taper and put the Raiders channel under the ribbon in the front dent. ... I noticed something in the pictures above- It looks like there's a book of matches or something stuck in the sweatband, showing through the ribbon behind his right ear in the larger pic, and a vertical line in the ribbon where the 'book of matches' is in the smaller pic. It looks like the line of the back of a bow, but on the wrong side of the hat.. I better get the 59 and make sure i have room for the match book. ..I think what makes this pork pie theory hard to believe, is that these lines are only visible in this scene, as far as I can tell, and I've searched pretty carefully.

[BendingOak]

3thoubucks, I can seem to get to those web sites you posted. Remind me not to murder anyone when you are around "Quincy".

Canyon , I want to hear more about why you were hung over

[J_Weaver]

Canyon , I want to hear more about why you were hung over

[BendingOak]

sorry j-waever, that should have been hang over.

[IndianaRedmon]

I agree with Ms. Canyon. Too much hat detail for a Sauturday night after returning from the club. I think I sobered up much to quickly.

[J_Weaver]

sorry j-weaver, that should have been hang over.

...You know how I can't stand bad grammar!

[3thoubucks]

I just orderd a Squatter 3 sizes larger than my pbbm. I had to **** whiskey so I wouldn't care if I felt like a fool after ordering. Just kidding. I'm talking folded sweat, cinched ribbon and match book- at least! The everythingaustralian.com links are working today, jpenman.

[Canyon]

3thoubucks, I can seem to get to those web sites you posted. Remind me not to murder anyone when you are around "Quincy".

Canyon , I want to hear more about why you were hung over

Sorry to go of topic but basically I just mixed my drinks (beer, spirit, liquer) Bad idea! I was watching Raiders whilst getting more and more drunk, which is an interesting experience (but not something that I would recommend to our younger members)

I'm not a big drinker, so when I do drink, it hits me pretty hard.

[BendingOak]

Thanks 3thoubucks.

[Dakota Ellison]

I don't believe the Poet used in the first film was pre-formed in any way. It was a soft, thin rabbit fur felt and and the extra dents you see on top come from the way it was shaped - by hand - not by a pre-formed block.
My latest HJ, which was sent unblocked, and my Optimo have the same sort of dents or puckers in the felt.

[3thoubucks]

Dakota, I assume you are talking about the dimples you sometimes get inside a top bash, but how do you explain this line? It seems obvious it was formed with a lot of force. Enough to raise a line of fuzz and it stayed that way long enough to leave a permanent dent, the shadow just above it. It passes through the top dent and emerges on the other side of the hat. The Sqatter is one of the few Akubras with a thinner felt - "Super Fine", not the thicker "Imperial" felt. My hopes aren't too high with all the taper it has though.

[J_Weaver]

I wish I hat a digital camera so I could get you some pics of my Squatter. The crown is too low and tapered to look much like the Raiders hat. But then again mine is about 10 years old and has seen a lot of rain and snow. I'm very interested to see how yours comes out. The felt is nice and soft. It definitely flaps in the wind like the Raiders hat; but yet its not too soft. The Squatter is a fine hat, but I'm sure how good of Raiders hat it will make.

[Vannevar]

like trying to find ufos!

[binkmeisterRick]

3thou, couldn't the severe crease been due to a "major event" that happened to one of the hats during filming? I mean, if something quite hefty on the set smooshed and put a heavy crease in the felt during a take, then doesn't it make sense that the mark would still show? I had one hat which had a similar mark on it due to it being run over by a car!

bink

[J_Weaver]

I had one hat which had a similar mark on it due to it being run over by a car!

I hope yuor head wasn't in it at the time!

[binkmeisterRick]

Fortunately not! A good gust of wind took it in a parking lot and it met the tire shortly thereafter. Fortunately, the hat cleaned up and was still wearable, even with the scar!

bink

[Fedora]

how do you explain this line?

Honestly, it looks just like a crease mark to me, and not an indication of a pre-formed crease. Now, if that line ran all the way around the hat, then I would say yes, it is possible. Those pre-formed hats normally really show well, that they were creased under pressure. I just do not see any evidence that would make me think the Raiders hat was not like an open crown hat to begin with. I see "wear creases", spot shrinkage, a relaxed brim break, an overly tight ribbon, sweat stains, and weathered felt, but that is all. Fedora

[3thoubucks]

Fedora, the line is 360. The line goes around the left side too, untill it disappears in that unusual dent. ....... Pagey, previous and a lot of shots to follow were filmed on a sound stage with multi-directional light sources which fill in the shadows. The sun is a very bright single light source here.

[3thoubucks]

Now, just for fun, ............ remember 'antiquity collector's' documented Raiders stunt double "hero hat"? Look at the line across the top- looks like this hat might have been a pork-pie too. In fact, that was my main objection to this hat being authentic at the time of this thread - linkviewtopic.php?t=6520&start=0

[Dakota Ellison]

Ford could have made those lines while sitting around waiting for the next scene set up. At a restraunt one night I was bored, so I took off my HJ and reshaped it as a D. I. hat, a pork pie, a western Gus style and a Freddy the Freeloader, all in about two minutes. I got some laughs from other patrons who noticed. The slight creases from this fooling around stay awhile, but they eventually blend in to the overall "look". Ford may have formed a pork-pie look just to see if Spielberg would notice and holler "cut". Who knows?

[3thoubucks]

Thanks Dakota. At least you see what I'm talking about... I stated earlier that I had my doubts about making my Squatter work. But, I have "a new hope", because I spotted something "new" in Raiders last night. Will explain when i get the Squatter, probably a week from now. ... By the way, the hat I'm wearing in my avatar on the left there, is a reworked "gambler" hat, which is a pork pie crown with a wide brim.

[3thoubucks]

I went to Google Images and found some actual Pork Pies.

[VP]

You messed up the url.

[3thoubucks]

Thanks VP!!!!!!!!

[Dakota Ellison]

I just saw another string in the general gear section which relates that the powers that be have been in touch with Ms. Nadoolman, which should soon render all this hypothesis moot.

[3thoubucks]

Moot or true. She can't deny it was a pork pie, or some other formed on the block style, which I have been "hot on the trail of" for the past half year. viewtopic.php?t=12571 If someone asks her if the hat had pre formed bashes or a plain open crown, it will be because I have been insisting it was the former. If she blurts out "It was an Akubra Squatter!!, this thread rocks hard. ... Well, since Deborah is maybe going to spill, I'm still going to beat her to the punch... SO........ here's the feature I re-discovered last night watching Raiders. ... Besides the HUGE channel under the ribbon in the front dent over Indy's right eye, caused either by a tightend ribbon, or a pleat in the felt of the crown, or both, I think there is a second pleat in the front pinch, under the ribbon. That amounts to TWO pleats in the base of crown, which goes a long way in diminishing the taper an Akubra Squatter might have. That's why I went a full 3 sizes larger on my Squatter.

[rick5150]

What do you do for a living, besides this? I am serious, because you have a very keen eye. You seem very obsessed in finding the details that most could care less about.

With that said, if you found that you are correct and it is a porkpie hat, that was turned, and had a wire in the brim, the sweatband folded over and a book of matches under part of the sweatband (etc., etc.), how many members would try all of this to get the hat to be screen accurate?

Try as I might, I cannot write this without is sounding insulting, but I assure you I do not mean it that way. As I said you have a sharp eye and have seen things that most miss...

[3thoubucks]

I drive for a living, but I trained to be an artist. This is kind of like doing art.

[Dakota Ellison]

What does the term "open stock" mean? Would that be the same as open crown? Perhaps.

[Marc]

That they had plenty in stock ?

Regards,

Marc

[3thoubucks]

I searched Google for "open stock" The first hit had open stock pots and pans. And this http://www.effectiveinventory.com/article50.html. It could probably mean an open crown hat too, who knows. The Sqatter can be had open crowned or pork pie. http://www.davidmorgan.com/proddetail.h ... uence=7866 Kind of strange the David Morgan is Imperial quality. It comes with hooks for a chin strap like antiquity collector's hero hat has. .. This one says it's the original Akubra, and that could fit Swales' statement that the hat was the oldest style he had still being manufactured. http://www.everythingaustralian.com.au/ ... 0&cat_id=2

[rick5150]

The way I read that letter, Ms. Nadoolman had nothing to do with acquiring the hat. Apparently, Mr. Ford and Mr. Spielberg popped in and asked for nothing in particular. It was Mr. Swales who "suggested" the Poet, so it is he who we should be questioning. He is my hero How many grains of salt do we take with that letter?

[Dakota Ellison]

I sure don't know, because Ms. Nadoolman makes no mention of Mr. Swales involvement. I e-mailed her last night and she replied saying his involvement could have been after "Raiders", so now I don't know what to think. It's the same with the jacket, although Peter remembers her asking him what could be done with his James Dean jacket and his replies. MK had this on the main page a while back but I don't see it anymore.

[Michaelson]

In a separate interview with Indiana John a few years ago, she stated she never even HEARD of Peter Botwright, so take that for what it's worth. Regards! Michaelson

[J_Weaver]

Has anyone ever talked to Mr. Ford or Mr. Spielberg about the hat? It would be interesting to hear their side of the story.

[Dakota Ellison]

Well, I'll just e-mail Mrs. Landis back and get to the bottom of this.

[Mattdeckard]

I don't buy the pork pie theory, though I could buy the theory that the hats used in the film were trimmed down Akubras sold through HJ.

[J_Weaver]

I believe the Raiders hat was simply a HJ Poet made on a now lost block and out of a now long gone felt. All of the fuuny little things we see in it are the results of the distressing process. I'll be absolutely shocked if the Akubra Squatter comes close to the look of the Federation. My dad has owned two Squatters. 1 gray but its been so long ago that I won't comment on it. He currently has a black Squatter that has way too much taper and too low of crown to even be in the ballpark of the Raiders hat. The hat really does need a reblock and with a reblock it may be a decent Raiders hat, but its not "the" hat.

I don't mean to sound like a kill joy, I'm just sharing my personal opinion and experence with the Squatter. A discussion forum isn't much good if everyone agrees.

[Michaelson]

I agree...no, wait.... Regards! Michaelson

[Mattdeckard]

Doesn't have to be a squatter.

[J_Weaver]

How about the Akubra Pastoralist? Akubra Pastoralist

[3thoubucks]

Here's a shot in the cave. You can see the line dip into the top dent and come up the other side. On the near side, the line goes into the shadow and comes up again at the upper corner of the front bash. The circle looks small, but remember as in the Cairo scene, the dark line is the inner line, and there is a lighter line circleing it, which would be the top ridge of a pork pie bash. And the front of the circle may be below the peak of the front pinch. ...As requested, Pagey- http://www.raidershat.com/linetorch_op_800x600.jpg

[3thoubucks]

Here's a lighter version. http://www.raidershat.com/linetorch2_op_800x600.jpg The line on the left side of the hat here, is slightly further away from the back of the hat than the right side line, because the hat is turned, as in front pinched off center.